Q-Man Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 The higher end Yamaha receivers have what they call front effect channels. Don't confuse these with your main speakers. Idealy you place a speaker above and about 3' back and 3' to the right and left of your main speakers. These front effect channels play what the mains do with a little time delay added in. The volume of these speakers should be a few db lower then your mains. I use LaScalas for the front effect channels. These channels widen the sound stage and make the music sound a lot more life like. I can't listen to music without them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 13, 2004 Author Share Posted March 13, 2004 Hi Q-Man, Finally made it to a McIntosh dealer on a trip out of town. The store was under construction but it still was awesome. Anyway, I asked about the MC202 and the dealer told me no luck. He said they'd been discontinued and he sold the last one four months ago. I asked whether there may be any hiding around somewhere but he was pretty discouraging. Anyway, he did show me a BEAUTIFUL MC252. It's 250 watts per two channels, bridgeable to 500 watt mono. Gorgeous sound. (I was happy to listen to lots and lots of McIntosh gear ... just bummed I couldn't hear them with my Klipsch) He quoted me a price of $3,800 on the 252. I'm wondering if you think I could still find a 202 somewhere and if so, where. I'd be more than happy with 200 watts to run my RF7s. Hell, I'd be even happier to run McIntosh's 75 watt integrated tube but that wouldn't work with home theater so I have to compromise. Can you or anyone else share their thoughts? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Sreelie, I'll let you know Monday or Tuesday about a 202. I'm dealing with Audio Classics and I will be getting a call from them then. The 202 is said to sound just like the 252. The 202 retailed for $3,300.00 and they wanted $2,400.00 for one. I talked them into letting me have one for $1,800.00 with a one year warranty from them. They usually give a 90 day warranty. A 90 day warranty on a McIntosh is all that you need. If it is working when you receive it it will probably work forever. The guy that I've been talking to is going to let me know if he has another one for me. I'll ask him if he did get some more and let you know. That is if you don't mind buying used. The MC352 list for $4,500.00 and is still being made. Audio Classics was going to let me have a trade in for $2,700.00. He tells me that the 352 will sound better then my 202. He may be reeling me in. I think I found a nice place to buy from, they take in a lot of gear when people trade up and sell it with a warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 14, 2004 Author Share Posted March 14, 2004 Cool i talked to the store guy a lot about different options for setting up a system that's primarily focused on getting the most out of music but could also accommodate a great home thater. I want the best I can get for music but it's always a difficult compromise for me to get the best of both worlds. One option we discussed was using a McIntosh integrated coupled with a tube amp. Way out of my league in terms of money but it was nice to dream. I saw a nice MC352 at the store. I just can't imagine pushing RF7s with 350 watts. I have a large space to fill, about 24 by 33, but I'm not producing an outdoor concert. Anyway, let me know what you find out. I'd definitely be interested in hearing more about the 202. Is Audio Classics a Web dealer or is it B&M? Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I run 140 watts on 7's and it sounds like the whole box would explode before the amp even starts to work hard.Go for quality not quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Go mono blocks if you want the best stereo. Or run two two channels bridge for mono. Bingo the more amps you add the more noise. Less is good for quality. Less meaning less amplifiers in a box. Less floor noise. Check out audiosource i know it's cheap but it has amazing sound with klipch. Look up the reviews the audiosource amptwo got on audio review and others around the web. Really nice 250.00 dollars. They also sell mono blocks cheap for five channel theater. Really unbeatable for the money. I had one for a day just to hear it and it sounded really good. Using a sony db840 as preamp. Cranked both volume knobs like it said in the manuel. And i was good to go. Then all i had to do was use the master volume on the receiver. I recomend though to turn it on manually instead of auto sense. Because i had it on auto sense and when watching tv it would turn off now and then because their wasn't a signal all the time. Very annoying but easily fixed by turning it on and off yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 2:09:18 AM wheelman wrote: Go mono blocks if you want the best stereo. Or run two two channels bridge for mono. Bingo the more amps you add the more noise. Less is good for quality. Less meaning less amplifiers in a box. Less floor noise. Check out audiosource i know it's cheap but it has amazing sound with klipch. Look up the reviews the audiosource amptwo got on audio review and others around the web. Really nice 250.00 dollars. They also sell mono blocks cheap for five channel theater. Really unbeatable for the money. I had one for a day just to hear it and it sounded really good. Using a sony db840 as preamp. Cranked both volume knobs like it said in the manuel. And i was good to go. Then all i had to do was use the master volume on the receiver. I recomend though to turn it on manually instead of auto sense. Because i had it on auto sense and when watching tv it would turn off now and then because their wasn't a signal all the time. Very annoying but easily fixed by turning it on and off yourself. ---------------- i agree with amps in the same price range..... an audiosource or outlaw mono block amplifier cannot compete with a butler audio 5 channel amplifier...... additionally.... depending upon the amplifier and the speakers used - bridging two channels to mono can actually INCREASE the noise floor..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 ---------------- On 3/14/2004 2:56:27 PM minn_male42 wrote: additionally.... depending upon the amplifier and the speakers used - bridging two channels to mono can actually INCREASE the noise floor..... ---------------- Yes I've read that also. However, I did read a review on the Bel Canto EVo amps where when bridged the noise floor actually decreases. So that's my dream, an EVo6 and an EVo4 run in bridged mode. Just a dream though, they are well out of my price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Just trying to save the guy some money. Do your research on a 200 dollars audiosource amptwo. YOU won't beleive it either will your ears. Heck i can recomend a Mark levinson amp or something really expensive. ofcourse that will be better. I bet the amptwo will give some of those thousand dollar amps a run for their money and have a better power supply to boot. I am sure not all of them but at two hundred some dollars. I almost don't see the extra to be worth it if your on a budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I started this thread looking for thoughts and opinions while I was looking at Rotel and Parasound and have received a great response. I'm into looking at any options that will save me money. I'm also into McIntosh, thanks to Q-Man, but that won't save me much money at all. I'm definitely not looking at 350 watt amps but I'd love to find a way to run Mac's 75 watt tube integrated amp. I think I would have walked out the door with it if I could have found a way to use it for home theater as well. (As an aside, this little amp makes me want to start a whole new system dedicated exlusively for two-channel) It was the most impressive machine I saw during the trip at the store. It was running some super inefficient speakers and it just blew me away, quality wise as well as volume. I run 90 watts on my Denon on super efficient RF7s but this little 75 watt tube in a class all its own. I'll keep looking and keep listening to any suggestions you all make. It's hard enough to get information about this hobby. Without help I get from people on this forum and others I'd be dead in the water. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 steelie check these out http://www.vxm.com/tone.audiosource.html http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_115609_1583crx.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I got one question for you. Are you planning to make the trek to Indy in June? PM me if you are. I may be able to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 not finding that partiuclar link to that portion of the site, wheelman. copy and pasted it but I'm getting a site not found message still .... good info on the main thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 ---------------- On 3/15/2004 3:01:14 AM steelie wrote: not finding that partiuclar link to that portion of the site, wheelman. copy and pasted it but I'm getting a site not found message still .... good info on the main thanks for the link. ---------------- I just found some then copied the address on paper and then wrote them down for ya. Did you get to read the review about how it handled some seriously hard to run speakers? That amp is completely stable at 2 ohms and has very little noise. I probally will buy one because of my money situation. And what's the sense if you get something that good for that cheap. Alot people may not like the name or whatever but hay it's my ears. The vu meters are pretty cool and it is slim. Also has a big toroidal (if that is how you spell it) power supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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