BackBurner Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 ---------------- On 3/8/2004 12:19:16 AM djk wrote: A 290 is 300hz~7Khz, a 291 is 500hz~13Khz. If you reduce the power handling requirements a 291 will go to 300hz. ---------------- Would that mean a 290 is the choice for a 311 horn and the 291 is the choice for the 511 horn . ? Do you choose a horns hz rating to start at the bottom of the drivers rating like refered to above ? Am i starting to understand or am i on the wrong track ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 WOW !! Sorry to butt in here guys , but this is one of the most informative threads if read in awhile. Good job guys , keep it going . I realy don't understand this stuff but i to am trying , so what are the Hz ranges of a stock mid 80's k-horn . Bass driver from ___hz to ___hz mid range from ____hz to ___ hz tweeter from _____hz to ____ hz The mid range has the most info right ? so how broad is the mid range and can we change the midrange information by changeing horns and drivers to concentrate on this area ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Brennan, you are a hoot! Loaded, Bass driver from _ 35 __hz to _ 380 __hz and just barely that. mid range from _ 300 or so ___hz to _ 6000 __ hz (K-55-M the K-55-V is about 250 to 5500 on a K-400) tweeter from _ 3500 ____hz to _ 15k ___ hz (If you get a good one, 10k, if not). The crossover points are 390 Hz (called 400 and is for all practical purposes) and probably 6000 Hz. The Type AA was 4800 and the Type AK-4 is called 4500. I'm not sure what an AK-2 really is. IOW, the driver/horn combos are operating at essentially their max. bandwidth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 John Warren, I sent you email & PM. Rigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I can speak from experience on this one: If you specifically want FASTER, TIGHTER, PUNCHIER bass, then slap a Eminence Kappa 15CLF (8 Ohm) in you Khorn bin. It has a Fc of 39 instead of 34 Hz. Definately punchier but not as "transparent" as the K-33E but handles more wattage - and it's cheaper too... Here's the diff; it will alter the xover point, so bear that in mind; it isn't a turn-key operation. However, at 30 watts RMS the bass output will change your heartbeat, regardless of the listening environment. If that's what you want they are roughly about $80 or so a piece. They definately ROCK, but they don't go as quite as low as K-33E's. It depends on the NATURE of the sound you want... I prefer the sound of the K-33E and that's what I use. Let me say one more thing: it has been said that the Khorn is designed for the K-33, etc. That's a GIANT CROCK! the K-33 was designed for the Khorn! The Khorn came first and hasn't changed appreciably over the years. It has outlived many different speaker encarnations and even speaker companies. There are other 15" speakers that also work EXTREMELY well in a Khorn as well as other horn types. The downside is that they all seem to cost almost TWICE as much or more as a K-33E. And each one has its own "flavor". It depends on your taste and bank account. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Why does everyone bring up cost when improveing Khorn. You spend more money on gas for your car in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 ---------------- On 3/8/2004 9:52:49 PM Maron Horonzak wrote: Why does everyone bring up cost when improveing Khorn. You spend more money on gas for your car in a year. ---------------- I think that cost potentially carries some important "unlisted" information such as possible or probable quality, availability and reasonably expected level of performance. Most of us operate within some budget constraints. It is also part of being a man to accomplish the most with the least expenditure of WHATEVER. Women would probably be more pragmatic about it, should they ever upgrade a Khorn! I would wear a parka in Hades first. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 You could always let your wife go with out shoes & upgrade your speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Option #2 would be to leave my k's alone and modify another cabinet. I know a guy with a pair of EV-1 (klipschorn clones )that have brand new k-33 drivers in them, the crossovers are and would be useless of cource as well as everything in the HF . These would be a good project speaker that could be upgraded to the JBL 2404H plus a mid horn mod. These things are worthless and junk as far as re-sale value so it might be a better project than carving up a decent pair of klipschs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 That would be an interesting project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 On 3/6/2004 11:46:00 PM DeanG wrote <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> So, in your opinion, what do you tackle first the get the highest performance for the dollar --the tweeter, or the midhorn? Replacing the tweeter is straightfwd using a method similar to what is shown above and results in a improvement that people can actually hear. The difference is a freedom of audible distress at high SPLs with very good transient response (bandwidth). Also, the JBL tweeter has been around for a while and is a known so spending $550 for a pair of them is a relatively low risk undertaking. The crossovers parts are about $40. Look at it from this perspective, the whole point of upgrading is to go where the manufacturer cant. They have margins to make, long term supplier agreements, marketing demands and so on. The EV T35 were ~$100/pr. just a few years ago and a Klipschorn sell for about $7.5k today. How much would a Klipschorn sell for if it had a pair of $600 tweeters? So, unless Klipsch comes out with a $35,000 Klipschorn derivative, they will likely never use the JBL 2404H tweeter in that or any horn loaded design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Good point john. This has been one of my pet peeves with klipsch , like mcdonalds and the big mac the klipschorn has not changed much in the past 20 years . mcdonalds changed the pickles , klipsch changed the crossover. Not bad for 20 years of evolution !!!!!!!!!!! One has to ask " where does klipsch want to be with the k-horn " ? Is this the flagship of the fleet that all others are to be measured against or just another horn loaded offering on the market . If i were at the helm at klipsch i'd make the k-horn like chevrolet did with the corvette. I'd challenge you to find a sports car in this price range that would or could hold a candle to the corvette. Klipsch should be doing the same with the k-horn !! Personally i think it could be even better for the price there asking , after all they have been building these things for how many years now ? you'd think klipsch would have perfected the construction process by now plus grinding there suppliers for better parts, etc ,etc, etc . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Go for it backburner !!!!!!!!! Buy the EV-1's , do the JBL 2404H mod plus the 311B altec horns, then get some crossovers from john and see if you can construct a q-man K-horn clone . or build a better one . I just love this kind of stuff !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 John, I have been interested in the tweeter change that Al K made & posted, but would be interested in the JBL if it is a further improvement. Would the same, or some other xover changes need to be made to run the JBL with ALKs in a Khorn? SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Back Burner......The Flag Ship of the Khorn line is still born. A cinema Bastard version may try to userp the throne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 So Maron, have you used or heard the Selenium horn tweets? I've heard people say they're good but I've never actually heard the things. Price is right. Some of the other horn tweets in the PE catalog look interesting too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 ---------------- On 3/7/2004 1:24:39 AM formica wrote: But, do you actually use modified k-horns? If so Im just wondering which of its compromises suited your listening? Thanks... Rob ---------------- I own a couple of pairs of Klipschorns. I have an on-again off-again interest in the Klipschorn bass horn. I've been having fun with the setup below. The mids are the old JBL 2123Js, each in a small, sealed enclosure with a Qts ~.6. They were tent sale items. The dual array does a good job, sensitivity works when wired in parallel. The network took some time to develop. I cut the bass horn out at 300Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Here's another picture. There is one in each corner of the room. I am in the process of building a new pair of these using the new JBL 2012Hs (20lbs each!) 10" mids. They're will not be for my use however so I have to actually make them "look" nice. I'm using some very "exotic" veneers. I'll post pics when they're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 John, If I go with the JBL tweeter, do I need to make any modifications, since I use the ALK xover? SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyp Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Beautiful work as usual, JH! I think those JBLs are rated ruler flat in a small box from 200 to 6K at 101dB. A pair in parallel would be 104dB, correct? Do they emulate the dynamics and clarity of a drum, a gun shot, etc, like a horn does? I guess it doesn't matter, I don't see any more available in the tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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