belial Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 I must confess, I am something of a klutz when it comes to crossover settings for my subwoofer ... In other words, I have no idea what I'm doing. I just got the RB-5s and I love them to death, but not sure how to balance the bass, since I have them wired through the woofer ... Any advice greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial Posted July 1, 2001 Author Share Posted July 1, 2001 Nobody has any advice to offer on this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 1, 2001 Share Posted July 1, 2001 bel, at least for music, u shouldn't really hear the sub directly, or as apart from the rb. it should blend in pretty seamlessly w/ them giving a better bass foundation. put on a bassy music track w/ the crossover all the way up to 120hz & move it down til it blends into where the sub isn't really distinct & directional from the rb. general rule is about 15hz above the lower freq. limits of the rb, but there are a lot of variables involved. may have to also work w/ the ksw output control & phase switch, but there're really no hard & fast rules. just listening & experimenting like i have done & continue to do. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial Posted July 2, 2001 Author Share Posted July 2, 2001 Thanks, boa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitricolo Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Hi Belial! If you have the RB-5s wired through the ksw12 then you have to set the crossover at 100hz because that is the high pass crossover fixed fequency of ksw12. Hope that helps you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Pitricolo: Hi Belial! If you have the RB-5s wired through the ksw12 then you have to set the crossover at 100hz because that is the high pass crossover fixed fequency of ksw12. Hope that helps you. i disagree there pit. that's a high pass filter-opposite to the adjustable low pass. say if u set your sub crossover to 120hz, then it's high pass will immediately start filtering ALL bass at 100hz at a certain slope (-db/octave). that's just a common sense filter they put in most subs (some switchable between like 80 or 100hz) when connecting mains thru the sub since most mains should have a low end down to at most 100hz. but the rb-5 go much lower than that & could cause some bass cancellation (muddiness) when combined w/ the ksw output. the bass in the gap between where u set the low crossover & that high pass filter at 100hz still goes to the mains at an increasing rate. if there's still any bass at 100hz then it filters from the sub to the mains at an even faster rate. so u shouldn't lose any bass at all between the sub & mains. if u lost bass w/ a high pass in this set-up, no sub maker in their right mind would use it. the high pass is just there so the sub doesn't get like 150hz or higher frequencies. hope that explains. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-02-2001 at 04:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitricolo Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 I think I am right. Moderator, please advise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 pic say u set the ksw low pass at 50hz. then it will start filtering off bass to the sub there and on to the rb-5 at the given rate. whatever bass the ksw doesn't get the rb-5 do get. then at 100hz the high pass filter starts so you are then getting that bass cut-off at even faster rate (dual filtering, that is if there's any left from the 1st filter) from the ksw but again the rb-5 is still getting that bass. so u don't lose any bass to the ksw & rb-5 overall combined. just the amount of it to either the ksw OR the rb-5. it's a trade-off. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial Posted July 2, 2001 Author Share Posted July 2, 2001 Whichever of you is right, I thank you both for your responses! I'm going to try different settings and see what sounds best. I did want to ask you, boa, when you wrote that a general rule of thumb was to set the crossover at "15hz above the lower freq. limits of the rb"--what would that number be? Pitricolo--I'm going to try it at the number that you advised as well. Thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 bel, general is about 60-80hz. do it where it overall blends in & sounds best to you. could be at 50hz for u even. many variables. & u should hear some dif in the ksw when u move your low pass crossover control. that because that works on the input signal. the fixed high pass works on the ksw output signal. meant to mention that before pit. >>>The low pass crossover control removes high bass from the sub on to the mains. The fixed high pass removes low bass from the mains & on to the ksw. whew, that's why they have schematic diagrams. good luck finding one from klipsch though. maybe the moderator could post that. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-02-2001 at 08:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial Posted July 2, 2001 Author Share Posted July 2, 2001 Well, Bell, I almost hate to ask this ... but which would you recommend for the RB-5: high pass or low pass? (I know, I know, I should just go by my own sonic judgement ... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 my god bell this has really got u in a tizzy - you're posting to yourself one lil comment about a high pass & it throws a wrench in the whole process u can't control the high pass on the ksw. it doesn't matter! u can only control the low pass - that's the knob that says crossover. read the ksw manual, set the knob at 70hz, output to 6, listen to bassy music. should be pretty good there. if not adjust knobs slightly to taste. use the force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Boa and Pit, I am also very interested in how this works. The way I read the manual, I would agree with Pit's conclusion. However, Boa has a point that a manufacturer would have to be pretty stupid to make a crossover like that. I think we need help from BobG or PhilH here?!?! T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belial Posted July 3, 2001 Author Share Posted July 3, 2001 Whoops! Sorry boa, guess I tried to switch identities there. Thanks for the answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 sorry guys i had a big long example written but went to the ksw specs to check it's crossover slopes & lost it all the key is the crossover slopes of the low vs. high pass. so say u set your low pass at 50hz so that at 100hz the bass to the sub is cut say -20db. at this point the bass to your mains has been going up at an increasing rate from 50hz. then this hits the high pass filter on the speaker outs & it starts filtering back the other direction at a pretty mellow 6db/octave. there the bass to the mains is decreased and the bass to the sub amp is increased but at a lesser rate than the low pass doing the opposite. so you're not losing any bass signal by setting the low pass lower than 100hz to get more bass to your mains. just regulating the rate of flow. anybody have any good water pipe analogies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 I think I'll have to throw in with t-man and pit on this. (Then again, it's a Drake family tradition to speculate and argue about things we have no first-hand knowledge of -- just ask my wife .) As I read the manual, I see that the speaker level outputs have a fixed high-pass filter set at 100 hz. To me, this means that frequencies below 100hz are ALWAYS filtered out going to the main speakers, regardless of the low pass filter setting. So I would say that it is possible to set the low pass filter low enough that there would be a gap in the bass. In the case of the RB-5s in question, I'd set the low pass filter on the sub at 120hz, as the RB-5s are going to be filtered below 100hz, and play with it from there. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 ok i'll try a water analogy say u have a water pipe w/ two valves in line. the water before the 1st valve is the bass going to the sub amp/filter. u open one valve up a lil (50hz) to let more of the bass water flow down the line (to the rb). then u close the other valve down the line a lil (to 100hz). by doing this do u lose water (bass) or do u force more bass water back to the amp/woofer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Continuing, then, with my speculation ... I don't think there is one water pipe involved here. I think there are two taps off a single main pipe (the speaker level input into the sub). One tap feeds the sub and the other tap feeds the speaker level outputs. The 100hz high pass filter is on the tap feeding the speaker level output, and it has a fixed opening that will never change. The other tap has the variable low pass valve on it. Opening or closing the variable valve on that tap will have no effect on the amount of water let through the fixed valve on the speaker level tap. But I'm just guessing...Does anyone know a good plumber (BobG, Jim, Phil)? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 ok then is it one pipe or 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Yes . I'm picturing one of those little y-adapters that you buy at Home Depot that screws on the hose bib on your house, so you can hook two hoses to one spigot. Each of the 2 resulting ends has its own valve on it, feeding separate hoses. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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