Some more High-End Garbage

[Colin]

sheltie, calling people names is a provocation anywhere on the planet: even monkeys taut each other with raspberries; they know an insult when they hear one.

[sunnysal]

fair enough artto, and for gods sake...calm down...LMAO!

AND I must disagree on one remianing issue. I AM GOD.

BTW I once had a chance to audition a piar of "planar ear speakers" and was quite impressed, they were very expensive but if I had the scratch I might go for them, the search for perfect sound ya'know.

I am troubled by what level of expenditure is "too much" obvioulsy you would agree we all have different, valid opinions about that. some of us are happy to spend $5,000 (again put any number here) on an amp others think that is ridiculous.

As the youngsters say..."peace" tony

[artto]

Fair enough Tony. Ironically, I'm actually, from the school of thought that says "no price is too much". However, I prefer to qualify that in the context of what I already have, or is available to buy, and at what price.

Example: My wife & I attended the debut of the legendary Infinity Reference Standard (the 8' tall 4 piece $50K system) back in the 80's. Three of the editors from Audio Magazine were sitting right in front of us. You may remember guys like Bert Whyte & Ed Canby. Infinity is not only using analog 30ips one-inch tape for this debut. They are also using the original Soundstream digital recorder & the original Telarc master tapes. And their own proprietary absolutely HUGE triode vaccuum tube power amps for the mid/high panels. To make a long story short, the grand finale' comes to a peak & the damn things fall flat on their face (not literally of course). But it was pretty pathetic. On top of that my wife (who usually doesn't get excited by this kind of thing) starts whipsering LOUDLY, "Our's is better! Our's is better!" And it in fact is. Afterwards I listened as even Bert Whyte talking to Arnie Nudell criticized the system for things like not having enough 'bite' on the horn sections.

The point here is this. I'll admit it. Klipschorns don't seem to sound so nice on high-stringed instruments such as violins. It just so happens that's my least favorite instrument. I hate the sound of violins. So as far as I'm concerned, a Khorn is reproducing the sound accurately (unlike the Infinity's which sounded gorgeously smooth & silky). It's also a fact that PWK's favorite instrument was the coronet. And I'm sure most, if not all here, would agree that Khorns are exceptional reproducing the sound of horns. Whether or not that has anything to do with they're being horn-type speakers or not, I don't know. But they can also do other things extremely well, espescially when compared to live sounds & live music. So what am I supposed to do? Spend 10's of thousands of dollars additional for nothing more than a compromise? If something costs that much more, it should, IMO, do everything, at least as well. And least one or two things better. Is that asking too much regardless of price? Then, at least you can make an objective decision as whether or not that extra performance is worth the money. But I'll be damned if I'm going to pay more, sometimes many times more, for something thats nothing more than an over-priced compromise.

And thats why, FOR ME, the reference is not my opinion of "what sounds good". It is live sound. And I have made the comparisons. And let other's decide or in some instances, 'be fooled' for verification of whether the system is meeting my objectives and goals.

You see, because once you establish a certain level of accuracy, you can always add to it or subtract whatever you want from it, anytime you want. However, if one insists on using nothing more than their own personal preferences as a reference, there's a great deal of likelihood that you are never going to be able to achieve any semblence of accuracy. After all, it's not called 'high-fidelity' for nothing. This is about sound REproduction, not sound production.

[Ray Garrison]

artto,

That's a cool story. Bert Whyte was one of my favorite writers and producers. One of my favorite records was his recording of Virgil Fox for Crystal Clear Records. Did you have a chance to talk to him?

[artto]

Ray, unfortunately no. At that time it was intimidating enough just to be in the presence of "all those who know & have been there". I just stood on the side & listened. I'm pretty sure I have that recording though. Didn't he do a lot of work with Crystal Clear? I remember buying a lot of his recommendations. Probably the most memorable one isn't an 'audiophile' recording though. It's Glen Gould performing Bach's Goldberg Variations on CBS. A very captivating performance.

[sheltie dave]

Colin, right now my kid brother is the American liason for running the school system in Mosul. Every day, mothers come in and complain and yell about how their children are being bullied or treated unfair. Bro's interpreter hangs around and drinks the woderful(gag) American army coffee. Sometimes he hangs around when the fathers come in and harangue. Once in a while, the interpreter will beat feet to the bathroom, and that is the time that no insults are allowed and guns are casually at the total ready. Even monkeys know when the fecal matter is about to turn into shrapnel.

I just picked up an indoor/outdoor Klipsch wall speaker. I'm mounting it in the bathroom, so when I can't listen, I'll hit the lou. No headphones needed now

[Colin]

Thou are NOT God

What can I say Sheltie, those Iraqis are barbarians; any culture without Dixie-land, jazz, blues, and Rock N Roll is clearly behind the times

Music Mr. Deneen, does NOT have to be FELT to be enjoyed; it doesnt have to be HEARD to be enjoyed either. Deaf people feel and enjoy the vibrations of music with without hearing them. A good soc to the solar plexus however, adds to the punch of action movies. Every home movie and music reproduction system, in my opinion, should have a powerful sub-wooferor two.

[artto]

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On 4/26/2004 11:05:11 AM Colin wrote:

Music Mr. Deneen, does NOT have to be FELT to be enjoyed; it doesnt have to be HEARD to be enjoyed either. Deaf people feel and enjoy the vibrations of music with without hearing them.

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LMAO. Lots of musicians are deaf & they still enjoy music!

Actually, I think you'll find most musicians don't have anything most of us would call "quality music reproduction systems" by any stretch of the imagination. Usually just some tinker-toy kind of stuff.

[arj]

that is why there is a difference between typical audiophile terms like soundstaging , Transpareccy...Blah blah and pure musicality.

Music is not about the sounds you hear ..but about the emotions that it evokes..and the above need not be tied down to each other.

you can see folks on an ordinary discman with the el cheapo headphones actually singing along and enjoying the music and at the same time the owner of a 100,000 system..playing only one test disc after another trying to check all aspects of the systems...and just by the time he gets it "right" the next version is reviewed in the magazine and upgaditis strikes !

Of course the above may be extremes but all of us fall somewhere in between the above two.. the important thing is to know where one is...and more importantly to understand that another person, just because he is in a different position in the above "spectrum" is not stupid. it is HIS preference to music which very well could be different

[arj]

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On 4/26/2004 11:05:11 AM Colin wrote:

What can I say Sheltie, those Iraqis are barbarians; any culture without Dixie-land, jazz, blues, and Rock N Roll is clearly behind the times

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Well..Arabic music has its very fine points and nuances..and surprisingly can sound very similiar to R&B as well as country music . Infact the stringed instrument..dont remember the name..and the guitar share a similiar ancestor..the Lute..and that has 8 strings(Or is it more...dont remember !!) to the 6 which the guitar has..

Hence I definitely would not call that Barbaric