pablum Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 ho hum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 whell, i would place those in my BS folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I think those would be nice for floral arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Not too long ago, many here would have placed tubes in their BS folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 But what does Amy think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 How about the one top AUDIO TRUTH? Beauty is in the ear of the listener! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Pablum----Many still place tubes in their BS folder, me included. Well perhaps BS is too strong but I've no use for tubes except when in the mood for coloration or nostalgia. Nowadays I'm very happy with my gain-clone, very happy. One tube amp is in the closet, the others are long gone. I suggest that those enamored of tube sound get themselves some old Bozak speakers, many of you tubies will love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 tbrennan- you like going against the grain and you appear to be a classic character on the forums, the kind you would like to sit down with in an old irish pub and debate history and frontier trivia. you also seem to have some good horn knowledge. but i am not sure you could hear your way out of a paper bag despite this. nothing wrong with that, but one must take this into account just as assessing the foundation of a building when contemplating that big addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 It seems that pablum has challenged Tom to a "hearing" contest. Who would judge this event? BEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 bec, how 1985 of you to reduce that comment to a contest with a winner and loser. I was just "busting tbrennan's chops" as he would say. The "tubes are coloration" argument is wornout like a moth-eaten French beret. A hearing contest was not implied nor mentioned. youre not looking for an excuse to use your widow maker are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 pablum, How without this contest can the rest of us know if Tom or you can "hear your way out of a paper bag"? The coloration argument is exactly on point and applicable today or in 1985. Amplification, in my opinion, should be capable of adding nothing except gain to the process of reproduction. Anything else added could be called "color" and addition of this "color" should be a user adjustable process. I have nothing against the person being able to adjust the sound to his liking. I do object to the idea that I must buy into a "tube sound" or a "SET" sound or a "solid state sound". Sound is either accurately reproduced or it isn't. BEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Please reread my posts above. Tbrennan is the one that asserted that tube amplifiers were colored. I simply said stating that tube amplification is "colored" was a tired and cliche argument that does not hold water with my experience. Secondly, my 1985 comment was in jest at your assumption that a contest between tbrennan and I is the only way to ascertain whether tbrennan can hear his way out of a paper bag. It seemed a fitting comment for 1985(or 2004 for that matter). thirdly, I defy you to find any amplification device that is not "colored" in some way. What an archaic term (as is this accuracy stance). SS amplification is colored as well. All reproduction has coloration in the chain. Lastly, your statement, either it's accurately reproduced or isnt is a gross simplification of the entire chain from creation to final product. I dont agree with any of your assumptions based on my experience as they are too narrow to define this whole process, either artistically or scientifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I have no beef with Pablum. Pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Not even corned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 pablum, I will, of course, concede that all devices that provide amplification have some effect other than only gain on the signal. The perfect amp would have no effect except gain. I do believe we can achieve close enough to that perfect amp to be indistinguishable by ear from that "perfect" amp. That is just based on my experience. The contest mentioned was in jest. I also have nothing against the year 1985. My youngest son was 3 that year. BEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 "So you are saying electrons can discern the different between a $3,000 cable and a $3 cable?" Funny that you bring this up because this is indeed a new cutting edge technology which has been recently developed and will be hitting the audio marketplace soon. It involves a very sophisticated process of "tagging" electrons and essentially "educating" them. Its all in the physics. This involves using recently discovered sub-atomic particles in the world of theoretical physics ("wimps" and "machos") and cutting edge discoveries with "dark matter". The bottom line? Yes, the application of this technology will indeed make it so that electrons will literally be able to discern the difference between a $3000 cable and a $3 cable. The design engineer will be able to arbitrarily determine how much effective difference you will hear not only with cables but with any product in the audio chain based soley on the price, as long as electrons are involved. The future of the audio business and how a product sounds will be entirely (and solely) dependent on the price you pay for it and this technology will be a great boon for the audio products industry. It is anticipated that this technology, which has been a top priority in US research and development for the last ten years will be applied to other areas of consumer products involving electrons as well. I think it is really cool that they finally figured out how to do this and am hoping that this will bring back the economic feasability of the high-end audio store. This will greatly simplify the job of the audio sales person as well. "You get what you pay for" will now be hard science and will be the "new testament" in audio salesmanship. How a system sounds will depend only on price, no arguments, no confusion, no discussion, no indecision, no "ands", "ifs" or "buts". Even audio forums will be much $impler. Forget all those other specs and suspicious hocus pocus. It is hoped that this new technology will generally spur our economy and now they are also trying to develop the same thing for any type of molecule that has electrons somewhere in the vacinity. The dream: Someday "price" will determine everything, not that it hasn't been headed that way for a long time. You want to be an informed salesperson? Just learn how to say "Forget about it, how much $ you got" ? This will get young people back into the sciences as well, so it will be great for the education industry. It is all very hopeful. C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Obfuscate with a wink while missing the point with an elbow to the ribs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Yes, cables make a huge difference. I auditioned most all of them from the boutique audiophile lines and then got lucky. As it turned out, the very best sounding cable, for me, was the #12 braided copper from Home Depot. I got a 500' roll as a close-out for 19 cents a foot and have used it for all my systems (tri amped and otherwise) and have plenty left over for other projects. Adding to this good spade connectors and good soldering has made for the ultimate diy cables. I could'nt believe my ears. Once they were broken in (about 7 seconds) they even sounded better. Fortunately this was done before the advent of the new "price determines all electrons" technology which is about to break onto the scene. Whew!....... C&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 The sole purpose of this thread appears to be the stirring up of sh#t that many of us are quite frankly tired of arguing about. Buy Home Depot wire if that's what makes you happy... buy the ridiculus esoteric $6,000 stuff for your $12,000 Mark Levinson monoblocks... you obviously have more money than you know what to do with. Or use a freaking rusty coat hanger... if you don't hear any differences in cables, enjoy. Then tell everyone who does hear a difference that they are stupid and deluded, and that they think everyone else is wrong. I personally think that some of you can't hear any difference from tweaks; I think some of you don't want to hear any differences, because it's more fun to have good old common horse-sense; I think some do hear differences, because the differences are actually there; I think some probably make themselves believe that differences, even if they are only slight, are worth the extravagant price, and that's certainly your choice. As for myself, I am happy with my $109\pr (but purchased wisely for much less) Nordost Solar Winds, and think they sound a lot better in my system with familiar good recordings than the low-end Audioquests, the Monster Interlink400's, and the cheapos that came with my third VCR. I will tell anyone who asks that it was worth it for me; if you don't want to buy the expensive cables, you are not a lesser form of humanity; if you want to buy the $6,000, that's fine too; I am not going to tell you they won't sound better than my Nordosts with your tens of thousands of dollar system... it's better than spending it on beer and cigarrettes, or pornography, or sending it to the W.'s re-election campaign... Where was I? ... I guess I wasn't quite so tired of arguing about it after all. And, at my age, the ridicule of those who find my choices ridiculous doesn't mean squat to me. "Remember... it's not a lie if you believe it" - George Costanza ... God, I miss Seinfeld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 ---------------- On 6/13/2004 12:17:14 PM pablum wrote: I dont agree with any of your assumptions based on my experience as they are too narrow to define this whole process, either artistically or scientifically. ---------------- What is your experience? Ever heard a good tube amp in your system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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