Worf101 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 When I first got into HT I auditioned some Klipsch at the local "high end" audio store. I fell in love with the SB3's. However I didn't want to pay through the nose so I bought some online off an ebay auction. I used them as my main for a few months, then got some free Ohm Walsh2's from a friend so I moved the SB3's back to be my rears. They sounded "alright" but no revelations. My setup is: Onkyo DS787 receiver Pioneer DV-C603 DVD Player (avoid at all costs folks) Klipsch KSC-1 Center (works great) Ohm Walsh2's as mains Klipsch SB3's in rear This was a sweet sweet set up I was way happy, but for some reason I expected more out of the SB3's when they were my mains. They sounded harsh and unforgiving with the Onkyo and couldn't for the life of me figure out why. An ex-girlfriend had lost all her speakers due to the machinations of her nieces and nephews so I offered to sell her by SB3's when I could find a suitable replacement. I bought some Ohm Walsh 4's and now use the Walsh2's as rears. I wouldn't be writing you folks now had I not had hooked up and tested the SB3's for her and had an epiphany. When I hooked those SB's to her measly 60 Watt per channel over the counter reciever MY GOD did those speakers sound marvelous. I could believe I was listening to the same speakers!!! They sang, they groaned, they thumped and all this without raising a sweat at even the hight volumes. Linda was so overwhelmed by the sound she actually started crying (no joke). My question is... Why didn't they sound that good for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 could be that u were using them w/ the rear channels & the receiver processing/modes. how did they sound when u had them on the front channels w/ the onk, especially w/ like 2 channel music on like a stereo/direct mode? This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-27-2001 at 08:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Many speakers sound quite different in the same room when moved only a small amount. So, frankly, if you are not happy with the way a speaker sounds in your room, after liking the way it sounded in another room, the problem probably lies in your room and/or how your speaker is placed in the room. IMHO these room/placement differences swamp any other differences, such as differences that people attribute to the electronics. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 touche' kevin. speaker placement is very important! ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z1 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-27-2001 at 06:11 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 "This was a sweet sweet set up I was way happy, but for some reason I expected more out of the SB3's when they were my mains. They sounded harsh and unforgiving with the Onkyo and couldn't for the life of me figure out why." The comment above is why I posted the reply that I did. I think it goes without saying that, although placement in the room for surrounds is as important as in the front, you obviously cannot compare the sound of a pair of speakers performing rear surround duties to a pair of speakers performing main duties. In fact, if you place identical speakers around the room in a surround sound setup, even if they are fed an identical full range signal, they will sound different at the listening position due to their differing locations in relation to the listening position. So naturally, if the surrounds are being fed a signal that differs from the mains, as is the case with surround sound processing, there is no way they will sound the same as the mains, even if the speakers are identical. In short, it is has been my experience that the room, and the speaker(s) placement in the room, is the overwhelming determining factor in how a system sounds. Changing those two factors in a positive fashion will generate an improvement far beyond any changes in properly functioning electronics. Now, again, this is my opinion based on my experience, so put those flaming arrows back in your quivers. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 kevin, no arrows, jmho. yes speaker placement/room is important. This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-27-2001 at 06:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Kevin - Your opinion is shared by Jim Hunter, Chief Engineer at Klipsch. You're in good company! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 i'm spending way 2much time on this forum! This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-27-2001 at 06:14 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 boa12, I actually didn't mean to single you out for the "flaming arrows" comment. It was meant for everyone in general. Sorry for not making that clearer. My experience in posting to boards such as this is that those of us who are brave (stupid?) enough to post that we do not believe that there is much, if any difference in the sound of properly functioning electronics, is that we are quickly surrounded by the "hear differences in everything" crowd and quickly shot at with "flaming arrows". Perhaps that will not be so this time. But I thought I would take a defensive position just in case! ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 kevin, i'm sorry 2 if i came across as overly sensitive. it's hard to communicate really effectively here especially for me as I can't write/type too well i think i've been on this board too much/too long. great forum & experiences though ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z1 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-27-2001 at 06:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 boa12, for the next couple of days (say thru the weekend), everytime you get the urge to check this board, go listen to a CD instead. By Monday I suspect you'll be back and feeling like new! ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 that's great advice kevin! or better yet a concert dvd. i'm waiting (again) on the velo hgs-18 to get back from the shop. have velo fsx-12 loaner til then. but do need to spend more time w/ the "family of sound". peace out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Well i'll give you some debate- quote: Originally posted by Kevin S: In short, it is has been my experience that the room, and the speaker(s) placement in the room, is the overwhelming determining factor in how a system sounds. Changing those two factors in a positive fashion will generate an improvement far beyond any changes in properly functioning electronics. Since you used the words overwhelming & far beyond, i'd have to disagree with this in it's totality. And sure that the klipsch expert would too. BTW, where's the dude that started this Thread? Obviously they sounded worse because he put them on the rear channels from the fronts. mere position in a room doesn't make that much difference in how a speaker sounds. kinda like Boa said or meant, if the rear speakers are only getting a delayed partial signal at half the DB as the fronts, moving the speaker around wont help much. I don't think we have enough info to make any assumptions about speaker positioning being the solution. waste of time with the given info. ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 hey i've got an idea. i'll go back in time & change the wording to what i meant now to make it more positive & save some space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Hey Forrest, Worf 101 said that he didn't like the sound of the speakers when they were his main speakers in his room, as much as he liked them when they were his ex's main speakers in her room. I think this is more than enough info for me to have given the opinion I did. My comments were to be applied to that main vs. main comparison. It is just my opinion that when comparing the sound of these speakers, as main speakers, in two different rooms, with properly operating electronics, that any difference in the apparent sound quality is far more likely to be caused by room and/or placement differences than difference in the electronics. But I've said that 3 times now, so I'll let it be. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 kev ok i agree he did imply that on the fronts too. boa must have missed that too. however he did try them in two different areas of his room 1st. musta been just a horrible, terrible room. or maybe it was something else??? hey worf, what do have there a perfectly square 8' sides room with all the speakers about 4 feet away? to go from harsh & unforgiving to an epiphany making your girlfriend cry tears of joy is really a change in room & placement ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo-Jo Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 When I listened to the SB3's in the store here, I didn't like them very much. I suppose it's all where you are and the equipment you're using. The acoustics could've been different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Yes, Jo-Jo, the same sound producer can seem entirely different under different locations... for example, the sound of you screaming in a roller coaster may sound different than the sound of you riding with DwK and his new learner's permit... or would it? HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo-Jo Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 Actually HornEd, if you want a little "Jo-Jo trivia," I can't scream. I think it's cause I was such a tomboy when I was younger. But, if I was ever in the situation of the terror of DwK's bad side of driving (), I think I'd take the bus... or walk... Love you DwK!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worf101 Posted July 30, 2001 Author Share Posted July 30, 2001 Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions. I tried the SB3's as mains first, then as rears... They were "alright" to good as rears but as I said, the were not all that great as mains. They sounded harsh and bright. Could have been lack of break-in, poor placement, wrong stand height. I don't know, but I'll say this, if those bugger's had sounded at my house like they sounded at her's they'd have had to pry them out of my cold dead fingers first to get me to part with them. Not to worry, I'm not done with Klipsch. I've bought some KG1.5's for rears and am looking for a good pair of Heresy's or upper level KG's I realize that this is an "evolutionary" process now and that one is never, ever "finished" or satisfied. Thanks all... Da Worfster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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