BEC Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 Mike, Weren't yours AL-3s anyway? My 90 Lascalas have the AL-3. Of course, I don't have a schematic for those either, but I don't remember seeing any zener diodes on them. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Bob mine where type AL and the componets where just as the diagram ALK posted. I can't read the values of the caps in the diagram ALK posted easley but both are actually 8uf in the squawker circuit. I'll try to post a drawing of the network I made back then. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Bob Sorry: for some reason I can't get the drawing I made to upload so I'll have to try later. All I know to tell you is mine where bought in 5/1988 and where marked Type AL they definitly had the Zener protection also. I do know that klipsch was starting to change some of the belle klipsch networks around this time from some conversations I had with Jim Hunter at klipsch and I would think they where looking into the Lascala networks also. So by 1990 it wouldn't suprise me if they had been changed. mike edit: I said 1989 in my earlier post but should have said 1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 Mike, This get more confusing all the time. My customer with the problem has AL crossovers in a 1984 set of Lascalas. You had 1988 Lascalas with the AL. My 1990 Lascalas have the AL-3. That would leave the AL-2 used only in 1989. And the AL-2 is the only one we seem to have a real schematic for. As I said, I am confused. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Here's the AL-3. I guess it's safe to say the schematic Al posted is indeed the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 Looks like we are making progress on this problem. Now does any one have a picture of a type AL crossover which seems to reside in a Lascala from sometime in the early 80s to around 1988. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Early AL networks do not have the zener diodes. If you look at: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/AK1.pdf schematic diagram you will note that the ground side of the 2µF cap comprising the elliptical filter has three wires coming in, two 16ga and the ground side of the 125µH. Use a 50W soldering iron and fix this connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 Dennis, Are you saying that the early AL and the AK-1 are the same or just that the tweeter filters are the same? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 I've got the AL -- which I got from Craig, but need to double check the diode question. I haven't really changed it in any way, but removing the diodes probably wouldn't do too much for protection against frequencies the could damage the driver. I'd be happy to take a picture of it, but I don't have the camera here. Jeez, this is kind of scary! It may not be such an issue for me since we do not tend to listen at very high volumes; however I have tried my vintage Kenwood (40 watt) amp with the K-horns, which sounded really good, by the way, and listened pretty loud but again without damage. That open coil connection might be something to consider with this, though. I've also got the schematic around here someplace.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 I had a look at my crossovers, and they don't have diodes in the tweeter branch. The high pass section of the network on the above posts did show diodes, though, so who knows!? So my beloved AL network is really that bad, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 It was a transitional network, almost more like a prototype really. Someday, you might want to try the AL-3. Thanks for responding Erik -- did Dee tell you about my adventure at The UPS Store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Bob I hope this drawing came through OK I'm still learning how to post images. anyway this is a drawing I had made of the AL network in the lascala I had owned. The resistor is missing in the drawing because I drew it after klipsch had modified it for me.It was located between the tie point terminal (next to the 30uf cap mounting screw) and (negative input) return connection which goes to the Squawkers (+) terminal if you look at ALK diagram. If you trace the wire going from the autoformer to the 8uf in series with a transformer marked 2133 you will see the tiepoint terminal I'm talking about.Sorry its not a picture but its the best I can do for you now.Also notice the Zener/Bracket next to the 2uf and air coil in the tweeter circuit in the bottom left of the drawing. the lascala's I owned had a cabnit problem and klipsch exchanged my lascala cabnits for some belle klipsch cabnits free I just had to buy some squaker horns and they used my componets and modified my crossovers by disabling the coil/cap/resistor network across the squawker for best measured responce in their lab at the time.This was done to keep me from having to buy the belle networks hope this helps and maybe someone will post an actual picture for you of one like this. mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I thought about this blown tweeter problem last night. This same thing happened to me one time about, lets see......12 years ago, I think. I had built a pair of speakers using a sealed enclosure and Polydax (I believe the company has changed to Audax) drivers. I had a very smal 4 watt amp at the time, and speaker efficiency was probably in the range of 86 to 87 db/watt/meter. And this is probably where I ran into problems -- due to the fact that I was using an underpowered amp rather than a more powerful one. I have no idea about what kind of system the 'blown Klipsch tweeter guy' has or what kind of amp was being used, but damage to delicate tweeter voice coils was caused in my experience, and perhaps this person's as well, by trying to make a lower powered amp do more work than it can. In other words, pushing an amp into clipping is NOT the same as just giving it lots of power, which generally should not be too much of a problem. In the clipping range, there is excessive higher frquency harmonic grunge that makes it's way to the tweeter, which can ruin it. On the other hand, good clean power, within appropriate limits, would not pose such a problem. This may not have anything to do with this person's problem, but I just remembered that experience I had, and the subsequent research that I did on it at the time. Hi, Dean. Dee did tell me about all of that -- sorry for the hassle you had to go through! Packing up and shipping stuff is not the most enjoyable part of this hobby for me, either! You all have a good day, I can't believe Monday is already here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 "Are you saying that the early AL and the AK-1 are the same or just that the tweeter filters are the same?" The tweeter part of the network was the same. We had a couple of clubs in town with these things that had problems with them, it was the first time I had seen that network in a LaScala (probably 1984). They ate tweeters like mad. I finally had them pull the whole speaker down and bring them in (they were chained to the ceiling inverted). The stop band for the tweeter should have had 50dB of attenuation, it only had 6dB. Same bad solder joint on both speakers. After I got the system sorted out it ran 24/7 for 5 years without needing service. To add to the network confusion, I own a pair of LaScala trap tops in black glass with edge trim that were made in 1985 that have AA networks and the K55V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 Thanks everyone for helping to clear this one up. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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