psg Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hi all, A few days ago, I let an auction go by for cheap KG5.2's (but shipping was expensive) to use as a center for La Scala's. I really want Heresy's, but Formica got me a lead on some KG4's close to Montreal (not local, but not bad!). They are black and that would match my La Scala's. Thanks Formica!!! I have an evening phone number for the seller, so I should decide by then... Here are the problems I see in order to use them as center: - They are rated at 94 db. That's 10 dB down from the La Scala. The receiver can level adjust +/- 10 dB, but I don't really want to go _that_ far if I can avoid it. - I could use two off them in parallel, giving 3 dB or 6 dB more (depending on who you listen to) but they are 6 ohms, and a 3 ohm load would likely be too much on my harman/kardon avr-325 (they say 4 ohms is okay). Might have to use a separate amp to drive them... - They have a rear passive driver. How far away from the wall must they be? They are 10.75 inches depth and my rear-projection TV is, I'm guessing, 2.5 feet deep. I'd like the fronts to line up. Would 1.5 feet to the wall be too close? For the price they are, I could probably try to use them as center until I get some Heresy's and then put them to some other use... Comments? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hmmm. The KG4.2 would be a better match... 95 dB efficiency (vs 94 dB). 8 ohms (vs 6 ohms), so I could put two in parallel. 6 inches higher but would still fit between my TV and the ceiling... But such finds are rare! Here's my preference order: KG4 -> KG4.2 -> Heresy -> single vertical cornwall But a KG4 is found... Might work for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I used a KG4 as a center for a while with my Cornwalls. I was not very satisfied since they were too different from the Heritage mains. Then I got a Heresy for a center and moved the KG4s to the rear. This was much better. Eventually I found a Cornwall center and moved the Heresys to the rear for an all-Heritage HT. This is much, much better. IMO you should hold out for a Heritage center with your Lascalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I used a KG4 as a center for a while with my Cornwalls. I was not very satisfied since they were too different from the Heritage mains. Then I got a Heresy for a center and moved the KG4s to the rear. This was much better. Eventually I found a Cornwall center and moved the Heresys to the rear for an all-Heritage HT. This is much, much better. IMO you should hold out for a Heritage center with your Lascalas. Thanks. I know I should hold out, but it might take a long time unless I pay a super shipping premium. Can you answer my question about speaker placement? How far or close to the wall should they be? I would angle them down a little bit since they would be placed high as center channel. Do you like the speaker by itself? Was it hard to drive? I assume I'll use it for soemthing else if the center channel usage doesn't work out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 Where should the RC-7 fit in my preference order for a center for La Scala's? pair of KG4 -> pair of KG4.2 -> pair of Heresy -> single vertical conwall Probably between KG4.2 and Heresey? The RC-7 is heavy, not wouldn't be as heavy to ship as a pair of Heresy's... Decisions, decisions... I haven't made up my mind on the KG4s. Buying them now means if something better comes along before at least 3 months is bad for the WAF. Maybe the RC-7 would be a better choice, except I can't use it as standalone speakers if it doesn't work out with the La Scala... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 "Can you answer my question about speaker placement? How far or close to the wall should they be? I would angle them down a little bit since they would be placed high as center channel." I think the KG4 works best about 6" from the wall. You will have to experiment in your room. When I was using one for a center, I turned it upside-down on top of the big screen TV to get the horn tweeter closer to the listening elevation. ---------------------------- "Do you like the speaker by itself? Was it hard to drive? I assume I'll use it for soemthing else if the center channel usage doesn't work out..." The KG4 is a very nice speaker. I still have the pair that I bought in 1985. They sound great in a small to medium sized room. They just don't work out too well as a center while using Heritage mains. In the KG4, the dialog frequencies are mostly produced by the 8" direct radiators (the crossover frequency is 1800Hz in this 2-way system) while the dialog from a Heritage speaker (3-way system) is produced by the mid range horn. I think this accounts for the mismatch in the sonic qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 The KG4 is a very nice speaker. I still have the pair that I bought in 1985. They sound great in a small to medium sized room. They just don't work out too well as a center while using Heritage mains. In the KG4, the dialog frequencies are mostly produced by the 8" direct radiators (the crossover frequency is 1800Hz in this 2-way system) while the dialog from a Heritage speaker (3-way system) is produced by the mid range horn. I think this accounts for the mismatch in the sonic qualities. Thanks! Based on this, I have decided to hold off and wait for Heresy's (or a single vertical cornwall!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 putting two speakers of 8 ohm in parallel is like one speaker of 4ohm be carrefull!!! and don t set your amp at +Xdb for the center but decrease the output for your lascalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Why not a single La Scala PSG? It seems to me that would be the absolute best! However, I certainly understand if you cannot squeeze it in, it is deep at 24"+ I found a single for $300 it had sat upstairs in a barn for a few years in heat and bitter cold. It worked perfectly when I brought it home and connected it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Doudou wrote: putting two speakers of 8 ohm in parallel is like one speaker of 4ohm be carrefull!!! Right. My h/k avr-325 is okay with that... and don t set your amp at +Xdb for the center but decrease the output for your lascalas. Why? I'd rather leave the mains at 0dB and adjust the others. I don't want to increase the noise floor on the La Scala's. But as long as I don't overdrive the speaker with the highest +Xdb offset, I should be okay, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 On 11/10/2004 10:48:03 AM Frzninvt wrote: Why not a single La Scala PSG? It seems to me that would be the absolute best! However, I certainly understand if you cannot squeeze it in, it is deep at 24"+ I found a single for $300 it had sat upstairs in a barn for a few years in heat and bitter cold. It worked perfectly when I brought it home and connected it. The height is the problem. I have, I think, 36 inches between the top of my RPTV and the ceiling. I'd want the speaker titlted down a bit. The only way a La Scala could fit is if the tilted-up back portion went up through the suspended ceiling to the rafters. The WAF might not be too high on that; but I'm not sure. But yeah, that would be sweet for sound... But hey, now I know you're close to the border! I could have a speaker delivered to you and I'm there an 8 hour drive later! I wonder how much a single Heresy retails for, brand-new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 You could do it like I did, the La Scala is laying on its side with my 43" Sony RPTV perched on top of it. That way it is only 2' tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Here is a photo, I also have an Academy on top of the TV to aid in dispersion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Since I am not familiar with your TV I'll have ot ask a dumb question or two. Does it sit on a stand or does it sit on a speaker box of sort incorporated into it. If it just the speakerless TV why not try a split La Scala? Put the HF section above the TV and the Bass bin below it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 ---------------- On 11/10/2004 12:04:54 PM Frzninvt wrote: Here is a photo, I also have an Academy on top of the TV to aid in dispersion. ---------------- I was thinking that a La Scala on its side wouldn't work well precisely because of the mid-horn dispersion. So I'm reluctant to do that. My TV has a higher integrated stand than yours, so I'd have to put the La Scala suspended over the TV. How does your La Scala work out if the Academy isn't hooked-up? I presume it doesn't work too well for those seated off-center? BTW, nice rack of stuff! What's that NAD? And can you really put a turntable on top of a sub? Once I put an empty port glass on my sub and a good LFE scence made it tip over. Nice finish on that La Scala... And KHorns to boot! Sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 The La Scala has been DeanG'd (Type AA with the Jensen PIO caps) and can hold it's own without the Academy. I can switch out the Academy with the push of a button. My listening chair is off axis from the La Scala's horns but I can hear it fine. The primary reason for the Academy is a good number of the DVD's have poorly mixed dialogue and the Academy is there to make it more intelligible. The NAD is a T163 A/V Pre-pro and it offers a ton of flexibility. The Velodyne's housing is so solid that it will not even vibrate that table much under normal use. However, I rarely play albums even though I have over 650 of them. It is nice to plop one on the table when I am in the mood though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 On 11/10/2004 12:51:17 PM J.4knee wrote: Since I am not familiar with your TV I'll have ot ask a dumb question or two. Does it sit on a stand or does it sit on a speaker box of sort incorporated into it. If it just the speakerless TV why not try a split La Scala? Put the HF section above the TV and the Bass bin below it. I wish I had the model number with me, but it has a rather tallish integrated stand where its speakers are. No room below the screen. This is not an HDTV. It's a 52 inch Samsumg RPTV purchased in winter 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 On 11/10/2004 1:31:21 PM Frzninvt wrote: The La Scala has been DeanG'd (Type AA with the Jensen PIO caps) and can hold it's own without the Academy. I can switch out the Academy with the push of a button. My listening chair is off axis from the La Scala's horns but I can hear it fine. The primary reason for the Academy is a good number of the DVD's have poorly mixed dialogue and the Academy is there to make it more intelligible. I'm really surprised. But I guess a lot of people listen to vertical cornwall's vertically too! I'm also surprised because you actually have rare vertical cornwalls and could use one as a center easily. Have you tried that? Is it better than the LS? I would be very interested in the answer... If you decide to split them up for center use, I'll buy one from you! Tomorrow I will switch a La Scala over to the center channel output and will lie it on it's side to hear what that sounds like. If I like the result, I might try that (if I can get over the funny look it has on its side). There are a bunch in Toronto still available, if a bit overpriced. The Velodyne's housing is so solid that it will not even vibrate that table much under normal use. However, I rarely play albums even though I have over 650 of them. It is nice to plop one on the table when I am in the mood though. And I suppose it doesn't do much anyway with an LP playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 On 11/10/2004 11:55:39 AM Frzninvt wrote: You could do it like I did, the La Scala is laying on its side with my 43" Sony RPTV perched on top of it. That way it is only 2' tall. Plus the fact that you can get a pair of La Scala's for just a bit more than Heresy's! US$300 to US$400 for Heresy's, US$500 to US$700 for La Scala's. Might be able to find a single La Scala for less than a pair of Heresy's... I'll definately try it on its side tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Here's what it would look like in my room with a sideways La Scala as center. I tried putting one on its side and feeding it the center channel on a movie. On-axis, the sound is fantastic. But my couch is kinda close to the front array, and the sound is not as good when sitting on the side. There are less high frquencies, and you get more of a feeling of listening to a speaker instead of just hearing voices. Not optimal... But great when seated closer to the middle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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