sunprairie Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I'm really thinking about adding some tubes to my HT. I'm running La Scala mains, academy center, Chorus II's surround, and Mac sub. Does anyone have any input on these available tubes on Audiogon, and would they work in conjunction with my Denon 4802 processor? I've never owned tubes, but the more time I spend on this forum, the more I think it would be a great addition. If anyone has any input on this, I'd really appreciate the help. Maybe I should just be looking for some Dynacos and save the extra $$ for another set of La Scalas. Take a look and let me know what you think. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1105984065 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 ---------------- On 11/19/2004 2:09:05 PM sunprairie wrote: I'm really thinking about adding some tubes to my HT. I'm running La Scala mains, academy center, Chorus II's surround, and Mac sub. Does anyone have any input on these available tubes on Audiogon, and would they work in conjunction with my Denon 4802 processor? I've never owned tubes, but the more time I spend on this forum, the more I think it would be a great addition. If anyone has any input on this, I'd really appreciate the help. Maybe I should just be looking for some Dynacos and save the extra $$ for another set of La Scalas. Take a look and let me know what you think. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1105984065 ---------------- been there - done that..... i tried a dynaco sca-35 integrated tube amp for awhile with my KLF-30's in my home theater..... (using the amp section only).... about 17 watts per side..... (this was after trying about 4 different solid state amps in my system and not being happy with the sound)...... it had a very "nice" sound with my speakers....but when i started to turn it up it couldn't keep up with the demands of more than a few action movies and compressed the sound immensely on some of my dynamic classical SACD's..... i moved to a carver professional ZR1000 digital amp and never regretted it - 225 watts per channel of power - plenty of headroom that was never there with the dynaco..... i do recommend that you try it however.......... the good news it that you can turn around and resell your amp back on audiogon or ebay for about the same amount that you paid for it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunprairie Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Thanks--I should have mentioned this is a classified with 3 Cary SLM 100's. Someone may be familiar with the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Let me just say I have heard very few amplifiers, but here is what I think: HORNS love tubes! and since you have a subwoofer to fill in the bottom you are ready to go, I would look for From a previous post: First, since you have gad-awful sensitive big ole horns, you can consider flea-powered amplifiers, both solid-state and tube. This also means 2A3 or 45 tubes and SET amplifiers. Remember, it is NOT the first watt that matters as the saying goes, but with big ole horns, it is the first milli that matters! Having said that, after years of surfing the Web, I decided that the tonal king of choice for ultra-sensitive big ole horns is the 2A3 tube. For me, that embodiment was low-cost, flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers kits. Although I have seriously auditioned only a few amplifiers, in my own home, with the same music and equipment, these inexpensive charmers sound almost as good as some very expensive alternatives. So far the only reasonably priced solid-state amplifier that impresses me on big ole horns is a sweet, little 70s vintage, solid-state harmon/kardon 330B receiver. This receiver is a revelation; more tube-like than the few modern, chintzy pieces of solid-state tin I have heard. It makes me wish my flea-powered Bottlehead Sovtek 2A3 tube Paramour amplifiers had a top end of NOT merely 6-watts, but maybe 10, possibly 12 or even15 watts. So look for "X"30 series of HK stereo receivers. The 430, 630, 730, and 930 models were twin-powered, (recently about $25 to $75 on eBay). Plan on possibly double that amount to clean-up dirty knobs and repair old capacitors. Next, I would consider vintage, but refurbished, Scott and Eico integrated tube amplifiers, which I heard briefly on classic Klipsch corner Khorns at preacherman Daddydees May 2004 Klipsch gathering in Little Rock, Arkansas. The Scott was surprisingly nice with the Klipsch RF7s. Plan on $200 or so for the amplifier, maybe double that for the refurbishing. I would consider checking with NOSvalves at http://www.nosvalves.com/. NOS means New Old Stock, for vintage tubes that have NOT been used or retain their original voltage - he is a regular poster here. Third, I really liked what the new Cayin TA30 integrated tube amplifier did at the gathering for the price. This is an attractive unit with a soft copper faceplate and bias adjustment. It is hefty, with great sound and looks for the price. I have the ASL AQ1003DT integrated EL34 tube amplifier now and love it. NOT the delicacy of the flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers, but plenty of tube magic and power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Those Cary's are nice, but when you start talking about that kind of money, I would opt for some of Craig's VRDs instead (nosvalves). Interesting response from Minn. on the 17 watts per channel. I am a recent tube convert having stumbled across a number of tube amps. If you are going to run all tubes for HT, I would run 40-60 watt monoblocks (at least) for the front three channels. I agree that there are just too many dynamic passages in HT for your front three for any less power. Right now, I have a pair of Dynaco Mark IIIs (60 per), and a nice Marantz 8B (35/per). The Marantz is the better sounding amp at lower volumes, but it starts to run out of steam at the higher end. Therefore, I plan on keeping the Mark IIIs for my mains, the 8B for surrounds (which can also do two-channel), and my Rotel SS amp for my center. I'm planning on sending Craig my Mark IIIs next year for a rebuild, but for the time being, they will do fine. So...I would either go with VRDs instead (first choice) or look for a pair of very reasonably-priced Mk IIIs (and rebuild them later)(second choice). I have heard a couple of Scotts, and they were nice. But, again, for your center, I would want more power for certain passages. And while true that a number of SET amps offer incredibly accurate, velvet reproductions, I do not know if I would use them for mixed music/HT. Oh, and to address your question about working with your Denon. Yes, they will work with your Denon, but I would not expect as much overall improvement with your sound versus, saying going to a tube preamp. In your ideal world, you could keep your Denon for HT duties, and then also get a tube preamp/linestage with a HT bypass. That way, you keep at least one all-tube setup for 2-channel (tube pre and tube amp), but you can also use the same tube amps that run your mains also when doing movies or SACD/DVD-Audio (off of the Denon). That's how I have Mark's Peach and my Classe pre hooked up. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 of course if you want to get a more modern "HT with tubes amp" there is the butler 5 channel amp..... 5 x 150 watts of hybrid tube power.... http://www.butleraudio.com/main.html T H E R M I O N I C VACUUM TUBE DRIVEN MULTI CHANNEL POWER AMPLIFIER The Past is the Future For the first time in the history of tube amplifier design, the original "Edison Effect", or the essence of pure Thermionic Vacuum Tube Emissions has been fully utilized to yield very low Total Harmonic Distortion and produce "all tube" type musical response characteristics in a multi- channel home amplifier. With painstaking efforts and great attention to detail, veteran Pro Music Industry designer BK Butler* has skillfully balanced the sonic response, load and transfer characteristics of individually selected twin triode vacuum tubes to operate under optimum conditions in this open-ended ZERO global negative feedback circuit topology. Previous hybrid designs employing vacuum tubes generally utilized tubes only in impedance-isolated preamp or pre-driver stages. However, BK Butler places the triodes exactly where they should be: DC coupled through the output power devices to the speakers. Therefore, the tubes are positioned to naturally and actively respond to the dynamic speaker load. This also completely eliminates one of the most inefficient and non-musical components in a typical tube power amplifier: the Output Transformer. Without the phase-shift and induction-generation caused by hundreds of turns of wire and massive core iron to overcome, Butler's newly patented current-multiplying DC coupled circuitry allows the 6SL7GT output driver tubes to directly operate into the constant ratio-reduced speaker load. This novel design allows the tubes to safely produce authentic power vacuum tube dynamic characteristics hundreds of times greater than their original design capabilities. Comparable in concept to precision racecar active power steering, BK Butler allows the tubes to "power steer" the audio output signal directly into your speakers. The result: A superlative marriage of tube and solid-state technology without the limitations of either. Literally, you get the reliable, efficient power capability of solid-state with all the greatly extended dynamics, warmth and musicality of the highest quality vacuum tube design available today. here's a review.... http://hometheater.about.com/od/audiocomponentreviews/fr/butler5150new.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I agree on the Butler amp, it's one to check out if it's within your budget. I'd have one myself if it wasn't over mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vital Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I think adding a nice tube preamp to your HT receiver will do wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I'm of the opinion that you keep HT and 2-channel seperate. Digital for HT and tubes for 2-channel. Hook up your mains to a switch-box and use 2 different amps. I don't think there's a lot to gain using tubes for HT unless you watch a lot of music DVDs but there's much to gain using tubes for 2-channel, especially with lascalas. Get a nice scott integrated with an unpowered center channel output to use with your sub. A 299b would do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I have heard the idea of a switch box proposed a number of times (being able to switch back and forth between amps). The last mentioning of a specific brand/model for this was buried in a thread, and I cannot seem to find it. Do you have any recommendations for a make/model for doing this??? I am still keeping some SS stuff in addition to my tubes and a switchbox for my mains and center might be a good idea. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 ---------------- On 11/21/2004 4:27:32 PM cjgeraci wrote: I have heard the idea of a switch box proposed a number of times (being able to switch back and forth between amps). The last mentioning of a specific brand/model for this was buried in a thread, and I cannot seem to find it. Do you have any recommendations for a make/model for doing this??? I am still keeping some SS stuff in addition to my tubes and a switchbox for my mains and center might be a good idea. Carl. ---------------- I use a Niles DPS-1 switchbox. Works great but costs about $90. Rat Shack has some flimsy plastic swtichbox that will work for about $10 but I'd spend the extra money. I believe Niles has a website which will show the closest dealer but you may be able to find one at Parts Express or Elusive Disc. http://www.nilesaudio.com/products/source_switching.html Dealers: Crutchfield J&R Music One Call Sound City Tweeter Your Electronic Warehouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Gary, thanks - that's the one that everyone mentions. Tell me, if you don't mind. What connections hook up to what on that thing?? Do you run both a single input (i.e. from the preamp) into it, and then switch the signal (via interconnects), one to each amp??? Thanks, again. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Comparitively speaking, for 150 watts x 5 of tube power (albeit hybrid), it's price of $3000 seems insanely underpriced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Carl, You run speaker wire from your speakers to the box, then run speaker wire from the box to each of your amps. There are 12 connectors on the back of the box. 4 for your speakers and 4 for each amp. It's very well built. The only downside is that the connecters are fairly small. I use monster cable which I assume is about 14 gauge which is Niles stated max. The ends of your speaker wire need only be stripped about 1/4". You could probably fit 12 gauge but it would be tight. Once connected (and luckily you only have to do it once), you can't tell the difference between the box and a direct connection. The button on the front obviously is used to switch between amps. It was well worth the $90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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