Khorns and subwoofers

[DTLongo]

I am weighing in late on an earlier string either here or in Home theater but for whatever my experience is worth:

Adding a subwoofer to a pair of Klipschorns well set up in good corners with a good amp is like bringing coals to Newcastle. The Khorns are so good to so low (35 hz.) that the sub won't add much at all to MOST music material.

But at the margin, on real low stuff, organ tones, etc., the sub will usefully complement the 'horns. But the 'horns are so efficient, the sub's volume need barely be opened. It is far too easy to overdo the sub volume and muddy up the whole sound. My Velodyne S1500R is happy with my '03 'horns & '04 Belle setup with the sub's volume knob, wholly off at 6:00, set to only 8:30 or 9:00. Xover is set at the lowest point, 40 hz.

On movies, the Khorns are impactful but don't really get down to 25 hz. or so explosions and guns boom and rumble. There, the sub is a definite asset. Plus, some program material is recorded bass-shy and there the sub can be turned up higher to compensate somewhat. Tom

[Erik Mandaville]

Thanks for sharing your impressions, Tom!

We could probably have a very good room, too, but we use the space for so many other things that it's difficult to seal the cabinets in the corners of the long wall. Even with the speakers on the shorter 15-16 ft. wall (angled out slightly), the bass response is better than anything we've had before, but I can see instances where, for certain kinds of music, a good quality active subwoofer could possibly be an advantage. I have to try the idea out for myself before I abandon the thought based, on theory alone, that it won't work.

[seti]

The volume control for my sub will be on the same preamp I will be using for my belles it has dual outputs. Will this be ok since I do not have a seperate vol to control the sub. Is there a volume control on the crossover another device on my list to buy? I could be wrong but I would have thought that using one volume control would be ideal so I don't have to raise one and then another.

hmm

[DTLongo]

Using one volume control to control the output of your (unpowered) sub together with your mains is OK as long as the sub is well matched to the mains.

The beauty of a powered subwoofer is that you can adjust the sub's volume independently of the mains. This comes in handy, when, as noted, you can raise the powered sub's volume signficantly to "excavate" more bass from bass-shy material, without muddying up too much the upper-bass and lower midrange as a normal amplifer or preamp bass tone control will do.

The Belles are less strong in the bass than Klipschorns so, if you have a variable crossover, I would recommend setting it to 80 hz. Tom

[Q-Man]

I didn't read or see this other topic that you mentioned, so I shouldn't say anything here. Yea right!

I said this before. You don't know what your missing untill you get a good sub. With Klipschorns I find that a 40Hz crossover blends in well. The crossover point also depends on the room. In one room of my house I have a 50Hz. dip. The dip is fixed by turning up the crossover point.

Don't by a cheap sub either, you need one of the best for Klipschorns.

[Erik Mandaville]

Thanks for contributing, Q. I've gotten a few emails from other K-horn owners who said exactly the same thing. They have also indicated that, regardless of the often general impression that many CDs don't have enough information down low to make the use of a subwoofer necessary, they were surprised by the extra presence of information that WAS there -- and in fact that the entire system sounded better, and music far more 'complete.'

Erik

[Erik Mandaville]

Forgot to ask you, Q-man. What subwoofer do you have? Is it a vented or sealed enclosure, one or multiple drivers, and so forth.

Thanks in advance!

Erik

[Q-Man]

I've been using a Sunfire Signature for about three to four years now. It's a good sub as long as you use it below 60Hz.

Once you get the crossover right you don't have to change it. The volume is another story. For some material I have to turn it down and some I have to turn it up. It's adjusted right when you don't know if it is playing or not untill you turn it off. That's when you realize what you have been missing. You should also turn off your speakers and just listen to the sub. This will let you hear all the room noises that need to be fixed. You won't hear a lot of these room noises with the speakers playing, but then I tend to listen at a loud level. I had to go around the room fixing everything that was vibrating or resonating. I even had to fix doors in the next room.

[edwinr]

With the Klipschorn having such a wide bandwidth, it would take a very good subwoofer to keep up with it - especially in a large room. I'm not against the idea though. When I get the funds I would like to try something along the lines of an RSW-15. For the LaScala or Belle, maybe the RSW-12 would be okay. I've heard some really good high end speakers matched with good subwoofers, you don't notice the subwoofer until you've switched it out. When this happens the soundstage seems to collapse. Interesting...