Denon AVR 3802 User Review (long)

[bacevedo]

OK - first a little background.

I bought the AVR 3801 back in February. I was completely blown away by its performance when compared to my old JVC 8000 series. I had it paired with Klipsch RB5 bookshelf's, RC3 center, RCW3 surrounds (in walls), Klipsch KSW 12 sub. I always loved the sound of the 3801, but I was never really impressed with the sub performance. I assumed I just needed a better sub. From the start, I had problems with the s-video out on the receiver. It would just randomly cut out, leaving my tv with no display. Sometimes it would go off for a few seconds, sometimes a few minutes. It would also go for a few months at a time with no problem. It finally started happening again after several months with no problems, so I finally got tired of it, and called my local dealer. He said to bring it on in and they would swap me out a new one.

Enter the 3802. I asked him if I could instead get the 3802 when it came out in a few weeks and he said no problem. They were going to make me pay $150 difference between what I paid for the 3801 and the 3802 MSRP, but I talked him out of it since I had spent quite a bit of money with them already. Again, no problems there - good local dealers are great!

Now for the good stuff.

I picked it up this weekend and brought it home. While I was at the shop, I asked why the new 3802 was a pound lighter than the old 3801, if they supposedly beefed up the power supply and stuff. The guy said he wasn't sure, but showed me the volume controls on the 3801 were machined metal (pretty heavy), and the 3802 are plastic. They look and feel identical, but they are a lot different in weight. So, maybe they changed all of the knobs (keeping the price low and lowering the weight). I imagine it is things like this that made the weight differences.

First, the similiarities.

The back panel is identical, and the front panel looks almost identical. The remote control is the exact same remote. The specs for the video are the same, so no changes there. Also, before I returned the 3801, I noted the power supply to see if it really had changed. The 3802 power supply has the exact same look and number on it that the 3801 had.

Now for the differences.

The front panel looks identical at first glance, but a few changes. First, the button labelled 6.1/7.1 on the front of the 3801 has been relabelled to Tone Defeat. That's right! You can defeat the tone control permanently for all modes. It bypasses the tone circuits completely for purer sound. The only other difference I noticed was the removal of the "Locked" indicator on the screen. It no longer indicates that it has locked onto a digital signal with a light. Not sure why they removed it, but they did.

Internal differences seem to be subtle as well. The volume control now goes from -70 to +18, where as the 3801 went from -60 to + 18. Not sure why, but it is different. Also, you now have the abitlity to change the sub Xover, which is nice. I still leave mine at 80 Hz, as this sounds good with my setup.

OK - get on with it - how does it sound?

In a word - AMAZING. I thought the 3801 sounded incredible - the 3802 takes it up another level. I played several CD's that I am very familiar with on the 3801, as well as my Dolby Digital Trailer DVD. The sound was cleaner, the bass was deeper, had more impact, was tighter, and more controlled. My sub was sounding good! I am not sure what they did with the sub pre-out, but they must have cleaned it up. I know S&V tested the sub out and found 1.9% distortion at 0 trim. I always left my sub out at -2 to counter this, and doing this with the 3802 produced better bass.

My surround speakers also came alive. They sounded better, too, clearer and more articulated. Again, this is on material that I am totally familiar with, and listened to all of the time on my 3801. I remembered the shortcomings of the 3801 on these scenes, and listened explicitly for them on the 3802, and they weren't there. Whatever Denon did, they did it right!

On music, the sound was also better. I think I now know what people mean when they say that warm Denon sound. The 3801 was no slouch, but the 3802 just had better vocals, and the bass was again deep, tight, and smooth. Everything just seemed to be really natural sounding. I think Denon really did work on bringing this back to the Denon sound.

DPLII - is it worth it?

Well, on Satellite, I can't hear a difference between it and DPL, or the Denon Matrix Mode. I almost like the Matrix Mode better, but I have not had a lot of time for TV viewing. It could just be the material I am watching. Not a lot of surround material on regular tv, so I couldn't tell you if the discrete surrounds make a difference.

Music on the other hand is a whole new ballgame. It sounds great (to me) with the music mode of DPLII. I never cared for DTS Neo 6 on music, but I really like DPLII. Playing the same music in plain stereo sounded really flat and 2-dimensional. DPLII really opens it up, I really enjoyed it.

My conclusion.

The 3802 is an incredible piece of equipment. I couldn't imagine owning the 4802, because I bet that thing is even better. But for the money, this receiver is going to be hard to beat, at least in my mind. The 3801 was good, but I think the 3802 is better, and not because of DPLII.

The sound quality has changed for the better, and that extra 5 watts of power doesn't say it all. In Denon's literature, they said something about changing their Bias Diode to give better sound at higher output. I think it worked!

If there is anyone sitting on the fence on whether to buy the 3801 at a discount, or the 3802, I say without any hesitation to get the 3802 if you can afford it. It has every decoding format out, and has great sound to go with it.

By the way - I don't have a 6.1/7.1 set up, so I don't know about the 6.1/7.1 features and performance. I use the extra two channels for the multi zone feature for my patios and dining room speakers.

------------------

Thanks,

Bryan

"... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater"

Mistubishi 60" RPTV (VS60603)

Denon AVR 3802 RCVR

Denon DVM 1800 DVD

JVC 3600U SVHS VCR

RCA DirecTV

Klipsch RB5 - L&R

Klipsch RC3 - Center

Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall surrounds

Klipsch KSW12 - Sub

Monster Power Conditioner

Radio Shack Gold Series Interconnects

Radio Shack 12 AWG Mega Cable

This message has been edited by bacevedo on 08-06-2001 at 05:42 PM

[gamer]

Perfect time for me to read a review like this. You have persuaded me towards the purchase of the 3802.

PS: Ive used similar tactics with my honey.

[beday00]

i also have the 3802 and while i don't have any experience with any previous denon products, but i do know that compared to jvc, sony, and technics it rocks. just my two cents

[bacevedo]

Gamer - my wife doesn't even let me finish saying it any more! "But honey - this is the..." - "I don't even want to hear you say that - just stop right there."

Oh well.

All I can say is go for the 3802 - it will not disappoint!

Bryan

[capta]

I am purchasing either a Denon 1801 on clearance or a 1602--my first HT receiver. I know you may or may not have first-hand knowledge of this, but comparing the two, which would be the better buy? On clearance the 1801 should be slightly cheaper than the 1602. Do you think the rather dramatic improvements you notice between the 3801 and 3802 also apply to the low-end models? Any advice or comparisons will be very helpful and appreciated.

[bacevedo]

Capta - I don't have any experience with those two receivers (as you mentioned), but if I were you - I would try to get the 1802. I remember reading a review that said the step from the 1601 to the 1801 was a pretty big step up in sound quality, and that from the 1801 to the 2801 was a smaller step. I would have to think that the 1802 brings the gap closer, but I don't know. The best thing to do is try and listen to them both with the same speakers that you have, and see which one you like. The fact that you are looking at Denon's entry level stuff is already a plus, as it will easily outperform JVC, Kenwood and Yamaha stuff at the same price point. At least in my biased opinion!

Check out ecoustics.com for some reviews.

Good luck.

Bryan

[T2K]

I personally would watch U-Bid carefully for a NEW Denon 2801.Much better receiver and amplification for the money.Some just sold the other day so cheap I thought about buying one myself,but I somehow scraped up enough self-disclipine to pass.Either way you can't lose.Good luck to you.

Keith

[dougdrake2]

Capta - TTK has a good idea - go for the 2801 if you can find one cheap enough. Otherwise, I'd go for the 1801 vs the 1602. You'll get more power which is good, plus a few extra benefits. The only benefit to the 1602, as far as I know, is that it has Dolby Pro Logic II decoding, right? Personally, I have no use for that in my setup - I'm strictly DVD and CD (and sometimes some records ).

DD

[capta]

Thanks all for the replies.

Bacevedo--I am now considering the 1802 as I have been told by some online dealers that the 1801 is already on clearance for about $310, while the price of the 1802 is only $360.

TTK--I have not seen any *new* 2801s on ubid, and even on clearance online they are still outta my range. I've got my eyes open but I'd rather not wait too long.

Doug--The 1801 and 1602 are very close in features I have found. The 1602 was boosted 5 watts per channel from the 1601, and so has only 5 WPC less than the 1801. The 1602 has only 1 optical input vs 2 for the 1801. And it has PLII while the 1801 does not. Those are the only differences I can find, but they seem to tilt the decision toward the 1602 or 1802. Unless online dealers substantially cut the price of the 1801 (which BTW they tell me they will not as I have called around) I just don't see buying it.

[atom]

hi bacevedo

i have almost the same setup as yours. i mean 3801, RB-5 RC-3 RS-3 KSW-12

but now, i am not so satisfied with its performence. so i want to know what' your setup for that system.

they including:

KSW-12's setting volumn? and 60Hz or 80Hz?

3801's setting, 0db or sth else

and other things you believe is important on setting.

thanks

[Steve Phillips]

bacevedo,sorry to hear your problems with the 3801.I've had mine since December 2000,with none of the problems you had.You might have had a bad one.

Liked your thoughts on the 3802.

I like the NEO:6 C,but don't get a lot out of the M.

If I do any multi channel music it's 7 channel stereo.I don't care for that much either.

I do rememeber my 2800 sounding a bit better when I changed them out,but figured it needed some time on it.Made a big difference when I added the POA-2800 amp.Very nice difference.

I watch all movies in NEO:6 C,unless it locks on dolby pro because it's on the dish DD channel that's not in DD.

------------------

Main HT:'77 Klipschorns w/ALKs,

'75 Heresy center,modified with,K-Horn sqauwker & AA network.

KSP-S6 at sides

2 KSP-S6's rear.

Denon AVR-3801

2 Denon POA-2800 200X2

1 driving the Horns

1 driving the bi-wired Heresy center.

2 DIY 12"4ohm subs,Carver A500x 400 watts per ch.feed.

1 12" powered sub(behind the couch)feed from the surrounds pre-outs.

Sony DVP-C650D.

Dishnetwork Echostar 4700 w/DD

JVC S7600U S-VHS

Pioneer CDL-D501 laser

Music in "Direct"only!

DH Labs T-14 speaker wire to the front 3.

Room size;15.5 X 25' opening into dining room.

Old RCA 52"RPTV w/matching cabinets

Bed room HT:

KSB 2.1 mains,SC-1,SS-1's,2 SW 8 II subs.

Cornwall Is for music only

Denon AVR-2800,

Dishnetwork,Sony SLV-975HF VCR,Panasonic DVD-RV31.

27"RCA

[bacevedo]

atom,

Here are my settings:

Denon Xover set to 80 Hz for sub, all speakers set to small. Xover on sub set to 120Hz (fully open to bypass it basically). Level on sub out on Denon set to -2 (set per Sound & Vision test results). Level on the sub itself set to about 8.

These could be different for you though, depending on your room. What is it about the performance that you don't like? I thought that set up sounded pretty incredible. I don't want you to think that the 3802 blows it away, cause it doesn't - it just sounds a little warmer.

SteveP,

Yeah - I was bummed I had the problems too, I think I just got a very rare bad one from Denon. I bet that external amp helped out a lot! I don't think a 3802 would make a difference in your setup - as I really think most of the changes were to the amplification stage. I would think that your setup would sound better than a "stock" 3802.

Now that I have had DPLII, I could live without it, but I do really like it, so I am glad that I have it. (Sounds weird I know)

Bryan