wheelman Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I was wondering about computer memory. I see that always upgrading the ram is a wise choice. What about the hard drive? What is the benefit of this? Also could someone explain what's more important, and could I get by with 256 ram, and 40 gb of ata drive? Also what is the purposes for each type of memory? Alot of people say to get at least 512 ram and it seems like that is always an upgrade charge to get anything more than 256. Just need some schooling here. I would be mainly into downloading music( huge jukebox deal), and creating my own music via music studio software. Also if I switch to a Macintosh will I beable to wiz right through everything? Will it be pretty much self explanitory being accustomed to a pc? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Random Access memory (RAM) is temporary instructions: think of it as your brain, sorting through all the things you have to do. Hard drives are storage space: think of it as library stacks. Your brain (RAM) sorts through all the things on the library stacks. PCs are sold with only 128MB of RAM, which is a crock! It is like operating with only one brain, when we all have three. 256MB is the minimum RAM for Windows and Internet browsing with a program open these days. 384MB is better, downloading and editing music will be faster with 512MB, much faster with a cable modem. More RAM is more important than the clock speed (2.2, 2.4 gigahertz, etc.) of the chip. Forty gigabytes (GB) of hard disk space is the minimum these days, 70-80GB drives are bigger and faster. Twelve Jack Johnson songs are 60 megabytes (MB), so at 1,000 mega-bytes to the giga, a 60GB hard drive holds 1,000 Jack Johnson CDs. So far I am quite impressed with the sturdy and stylish construction of my slim $200 black and gray Dell Dimension 4300. Dells have the best Consumer Reports repair record of any PC. (HP is as cheap as eMachines in their survey and a lot more reliable!) Mine is a 1.5Ghz Pentium 4 with ducted fan, 128Mb of PC133 DDR RAM, upgraded to 384MB RAM (256 PC133 DIMM, $50 at CompUSA with rebate). It has a 40Gb Maxtor hard drive (storage). According to the Intel site, each time you triple the clock speed of the processor (the Pentuium chip), you increase processing speed ten-fold! So my new 1.5 Ghz chip is about 10X faster than my creaking old 400Mhz, and I might experience as much as 15X more processing speed in some operations. I use my PC for writing and Internet surfing, neither of which require horsepower. It plays and burns CDs just fine thank you, but I am an audiophile purist and would never listen to music through a PC. If I was just starting out however, I would buy the Klipsch Promedia GMX A.21 HT system for my PC or DVD player. Klipschs Trey Cannon brought one to preacherman Daddydees May 2004 Klipsch gathering in Little Rock, Arkansas. He held down one end of the long lunch table with a tide of Klipsch tidbits: story after story, fact after fact. The GMX HT system, on Streams Cayin TA30 integrated tube amplifier was amazing for only 150 bucks! At the low end of the market, where I troll for technology bargains, the wonderful Mac, which Windows copies on all PCs, is quite expensive. Copying and burning CDs on a PC will be just as easy the programs work the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 Colin thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Wheelman, Yes, RAM makes a huge difference. Put a computer with 512MB of RAM next to a computer with 1GB of RAM and you will notice a difference. When building my computer I splurged and spent a bit more for 1GB of RAM, wow what a difference! You probably could get by with 256MB of RAM, but I wouldn't want to. I'd want at least 512MB. A 512MB stick of RAM will cost you about $80 at NewEgg.com Bah and there is the bell! (I'm at school!) More on this later. - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 ---------------- On 12/8/2004 5:43:35 AM Colin wrote: According to the Intel site, each time you triple the clock speed of the processor (the Pentuium chip), you increase processing speed ten-fold! So my new 1.5 Ghz chip is about 10X faster than my creaking old 400Mhz, and I might experience as much as 15X more processing speed in some operations. I'm sorry, but that doesn't add up at all. Gotta call Bull**** on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Wheelman, Ok so where was I? Ah yes, computer memory absolutely makes a difference, and there really is no such thing as having too much, so the sky is the limit! Or rather, the number of memory slots on your motherboard is the limit. Heh. In fact, many of the larger computer manufacturers these days (DELL, Gateway, HP, etc.) will include at least (usually no more or less than) 512MB of RAM in their basic computer systems. More memory is of course more money but it is usually reasonable and if not you could simply buy the RAM stick and put it in your computer yourself. (About $80 per stick of 512MB) 512MB of RAM will probably be more than enough for the vast majority of computer users. I went with 1GB with my custom system because I like the comfort in knowing that it is there - just in case. This is the same reason why I tend to buy higher quality components for everything computer-related despite perhaps not ever really needing the 'power' on a regular basis. Another reason being that you get what you pay for and if you buy cheap computer parts you can't expect much. Call it spoiled or whatever you please, I just am not a patient person and when I push the button on my computer I expect everything to work right. Heh. As for your hard drive, is this a 40GB SATA drive or a 40GB IDE drive? It's important because it must be compatible with your motherboard. The SATA drives are much better, but you need a motherboard that is compatible - as they are completely different connectors. I have an 80GB IDE Western Digital hard drive. They are now going for $60 a pop, which isn't bad. a 40GB IDE Western Digital hard drive is $10 less - you might as well just go with the 80GB hard drive. Hard drives are funny that way, the better hard drives only cost a few extra dollars more. Now, I don't know what kind of computing you do but if you download a lot of music as I do (Yes, legally. Heh.) - you'll probably want an 80GB hard drive (preferably 7200RPM) which as I said before is $60. 40GB is still a pretty good size, and if you do not download much it may be perfect for you. But I notice you had said that you'd be mainly into downloading music. So I would recommend an 80GB IDE (or SATA depending on your motherboard) hard drive - 7200RPM. Anyways, if you have anymore computer questions I'd be happy to help! I'm no expert by any means, compared to friends of mine I'm a novice. But I think I know what I am talking about. Merry Christmas! - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 pig, don't believe me, go to the Intel site, clock speed does increase processing THROUGHPUT almost expontentially! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Whatever the case may be, Overclocking is really not a good idea anyways. I assume that this is what you are talking about when you talk about tripling the clock speed. I'd much rather have a fast and stable system then a super fast system that is unstable. You know? - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Others can bring me up to date on this because my knowledge is a bit imperfect. One thing is that programs are actually sets of files which are placed into RAM as demanded. Sometimes when you're finished with a portion of a given program, the file is removed from RAM, but not always. Another case of this is if you are running programs simultaneously. I.e. Word, and Excel, and I.E., and AOL IM, etc. Also, as you install programs, many of them seize on the booting (or Win loading) to place a chunk of themselves into RAM. This way they run more quickly when you start them "normally." The result is that even if you have nomially sufficent RAM, it gets used up by progams in the course of running them if they fail to remove themselves and free up RAM. Plus the more programs you install, the more RAM is reserved by those, or at least some of them. A related issue is what programs do when there is not sufficent RAM to load the handful of files they would like in RAM for fast access for a given legit function. They are forced to read it from the hard drive (which is relatively slow) rather than some cache. So things bog down. People blame the hard drive because they see it running at every click. It is only running because RAM has been hijacked in the beginning, or reserved and not released in the normal course of things. More RAM will solve that for a while but eventually you can use that up too. I believe this is why people buy computers and they run fast at the beginning. But put on a number of programs with bad memory management or known as memory hogs the machine slows down. Put in more RAM and they're faster. This is not because of clock speed at all. The solution is to keep a watch on what programs load at start up. In W98 this could be done from the command line. Perhaps someone can advise on XP. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illthreat Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 There is more to RAM than just MB and GB. You have to also consider the memory clock speed. Also, your processors speed is just as important. Along with this you also have a front sub bus. This can range in MHz also. You can almost determine your weakest link by statistics alone. So Processor at X MHz Front Side Bus at X MHz Memory XX MB at X MHz lots of different variables here. Someone with a 2700+ AMD processor running a 333MHz front side bus, will want to atleast run XX MB of ram at 333MHz or above. You don't want to bottle neck your system. So it's important to know your system, and not blindy take recommendations for your "upgrade path". And there is nothing wrong with overclocking if you do it right. Just with anything in life, if you ask too much, it will blow up. But if you cover your bases, run upgraded cooling and keep things within spec, there is no reason why an overclocked component cannot last for a very long time. Good Luck with your Upgrades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 William, You're right. You can speed up your computer greatly by disabling some unneccesary programs from starting up. But make sure you know what you are doing. This can be done in Windows XP and other Windows operating systems (I believe) by... Going to Start > Run > "msconfig" (without the quotes and hit enter) > Startup Simply uncheck the boxes of the programs you do not want to start up and hit apply. However this is more of a startup time thing, if you do not have enough RAM and your computer is slow than that is all there is to it really. But still a good tip, William! It does help to speed up the computer a bit if you have a lot of programs running at start up. Illthreat, You're right too. But more RAM is never really a bad idea. They put more RAM slots onto a motherboard for a reason. Heh. How do you determine the FSB? I think mine is 333MHz - I checked my motherboard's specs and it gave me this: "400/333/266/200MHz" - this is from the NewEgg websites under "FSB" of my motherboard. Hmmm. But still I'm not a fan of overclocking. To each his own, however! - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The RAM is more important to your pocket book than the clock speed. An old PC with more RAM is better than a new PC with less RAM for practical everyday applications, such as MS Office and two-three IE browser sessions. There is such a thing as too much RAM. Just like having too much power with big ole horns. You can have so much headroom, that it is really money wasted. At the Microsoft site (somewhere) there is a study for WinXP indicating that much more than 384MB of RAM is LESS efficient and practical, expect for certain graphic heavy applications like editing music or pictures. Just like a 50-watt receiver with super-sensitive Cornwall 1s, rated at an amazing 99/100 dB per watt per meter. Their actual in-room measurements at the sweet spot show 100Hz conversational levels (73dB) actually require about 2-watts. To reproduce a 91db music peak requires an estimated 3.5-watts! To reproduce the incredible 130dB of a brief musical peak from a live orchestra, these big ole horns need only an estimated 9 to 10-watts. Therefore, my crude real world measurements indicate that much more than 10-watts is mostly wasted with super-sensitive big ole horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Well I'm running 1GB of RAM on Windows XP and believe me it's efficient. Heh. I've never heard of 'too much RAM' - my friend has 2GB of RAM in his computer (granted he does artwork, makes movies, etc.) but I remember when he just built the computer and was playing around with it. He was like, "This is fast!" just opening folders, and every day programs. You can't have too much RAM, maybe in the respect that you have more than you need. But hey if you ever need to fire up a huge application - it'll be there! Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 There is such a thing as too much RAM depending on what you do with your PC. I booted up 3 hours ago to read email and browse this forum. I've got a few other small applications going. This is Linux... $ free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 515724 316248 199476 0 9768 200960 -/+ buffers/cache: 105520 410204 Swap: 1004052 0 1004052 The above says I have 512MB of RAM and I'm using only about 315MB with nearly 200MB completely unused. Of the 315MB in use, only a little over 100MB is used by applications (software) and the rest is stuff I have accessed (software or files) is that remains cached for faster access should I need it again. More memory means more software and files cached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I booted up about an hour and a half ago. I'm running Windows XP. Physical Memory (K) Total: 1,048,096 Available: 780,288 System Cahce: 287,448 Works for me. Heh. When you talk about 'too much RAM', you're talking about more than you need. But with RAM it's different. It's like, being at a restaurant. You are hungry, you need food. Now, if you only have one plate of spaghetti in front of you - that's ok if you aren't THAT hungry. But if you are STARVING that might not be enough. Now if you have 20 plates of spaghetti in front of you - that is way too much - you'll never eat all of it. But does it matter? You eat as much as you need. This is like a computer, it eats as much as it needs - if there is more than it needs, so what? No big deal. It's only going to take what it needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 It's too much if the computer never uses it. Then you've paid for something you don't use. You'll likely use it once in a while. So it's up to what one can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Ah, exactly Peter! But if you can afford it, and if you want it - then go ahead! Heh. - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illthreat Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Illthreat, You're right too. But more RAM is never really a bad idea. They put more RAM slots onto a motherboard for a reason. Heh. How do you determine the FSB? I think mine is 333MHz - I checked my motherboard's specs and it gave me this: "400/333/266/200MHz" - this is from the NewEgg websites under "FSB" of my motherboard. Hmmm. But still I'm not a fan of overclocking. To each his own, however! ---------------------------- Hey Verso more RAM is great! Agreed.. Didn't mean to say otherwise. You Set the FSB by looking at a few different things. Your mother board supports (ref. newegg) 400/333/266/200mhz. Sometimes this is set in your BIOS by External Frequency. The External Freq = 1/2 the FSB. For example. If your FSB is 400mhz. The External Clock freq. of the CPU (and RAM) is 200MHz. For example. If your FSB is 333mhz. The ECF. of the CPU (and RAM) is 166MHz. So, it depends on what your processor FSB is. And also your RAM's FSB. speed. So, firstly find your Exact processor. It will have a FSB of X MHz. Secondly, find your Exact RAM. It will have a FSB also of X MHz. (when I say Find, i mean identify/know) So if your proc. has a FSB of 266 and your mem. is 333. Then you can clearly see that your "bottle neck" is your proc. having a lesser FSB clock speed. And NOT always will more RAM defeat a faster processor. It's apples and oranges. I would always suggest buying more RAM then CPU if the CPU difference is negligable. An example of my system: ASUS A7N8X deluxe motherboard. Supports up to 400MHz. FSB. AMD 2700+ , FSB of 333MHz. 1GB of DDR 2700 (333MHz.). So right now, if I purchased Better RAM like OCZ Platinum DDR 3200 (400mhz FSB), I could overclock my little 2700+ proc. a little. OCZ Platinum is Known to overclock very very nicely. For example. It's OEM external clock freq. is 200MHz (400MHz FSB). It can overclock is "stock trim" to ~217 Mhz. And has been carefully overclocked to waaay more with better cooling and management. Or I could not overclock the proc. and purchase a newer proc. with 400MHz. FSB. Overclocking is Not a good idea unless you know what you are doing. It will stress components if done too much. But with technology increasing every year like it does; I don't mind frying a processor if I'm getting 3 years of out it. For the record, I've never fried anything, because I don't overclock excessively. Right now the only thing that is OC is the Video Card. But I have prepped it for doing so. Sorry for the long post.. If this doesn't make sense or you want more info/ help.. please don't hesitate to ask! Best Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verso Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Illthreat, Thanks for the reply! My processor is the same as yours I believe? It has a FSB of 333MHz (AMD Athlon XP 2700+) Not sure what the FSB of my RAM is though? It's Crucial 512MB - two sticks of it - when I purchased the components for this computer they were about $80 a stick. I have the ASUS "A7V8X-X" which has a FSB of (according to NewEgg) 333/266/200MHz. So does that mean it supports a processor and RAM with no more than 333MHz? So a processor with a FSB of 400MHz would not work with that motherboard? I'm still a little confused, so what determines the FSB? Is it set in the BIOS settings or something? Ah, I should do some Googling! - Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illthreat Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 ---------------- On 12/28/2004 2:55:30 PM verso wrote: Illthreat, Thanks for the reply! My processor is the same as yours I believe? It has a FSB of 333MHz (AMD Athlon XP 2700+) Not sure what the FSB of my RAM is though? It's Crucial 512MB - two sticks of it - when I purchased the components for this computer they were about $80 a stick. I have the ASUS "A7V8X-X" which has a FSB of (according to NewEgg) 333/266/200MHz. So does that mean it supports a processor and RAM with no more than 333MHz? So a processor with a FSB of 400MHz would not work with that motherboard? I'm still a little confused, so what determines the FSB? Is it set in the BIOS settings or something? Ah, I should do some Googling! - Steven ---------------- Yes, same proc. 2700XP+ Try to get some specs of your RAM. If nothing else, open the case and have a look on the RAM itself: DDR2700 is 333MHz. DDR3200 is 400MHz. and so on. I would presume your RAM is at least 2700 (333MHz.) Your mother board will only support up to 333MHz. You are limited to running this speed FSB. This does Not mean you cannot purchase and install something like 400MHz. You would just be limited to running it at 333MHz. So, possible waste of money looking at FSB alone. Check with Asus. http://www.asus.com for BIOS upgrade for your mother board. You may be able to upgrade your BIOS which may inturn upgrade your FSB to a higher (400MHz.) FSB. The FSB is determined by your setting in the BIOS. But setting a FSB higher than your equip will either cause damage of lock-up. You must correctly set the BIOS for your gear. So, in other words, your gear ultimately determines your FSB. But you can set it higher/lower, etc.. I wouldn't recommend this. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. This was my 1st calling in life, and I don't mind sharing any info that can help a fellow Klipsch member. This forum has an excellent attitude and I am pleased to contribute in any way I can. Best Regards, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.