Jim E Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Swells, Yes, very nice work. Some of those angles must have been really tough to cut. I am curious as to what machinery and tools you used in the construction. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Swells, Before you spend any money on a squawker horn you better test the upper frequency limit of that miniature Khorn very carefully. Since the folds in the Khorn limits it's upper end there is a good chance it will not go any higher than the full-sized Khorn. So you may sill be stuck with a 400 Hz crossover and the big K400 horn (that won't fit in there)! Are'nt I a kill-joy! Al k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Swells, You should be able to get a new Atlas PD5-VH for about $160. It may not have the latest mods the K-55-X has, but it will be identical to the spring terminal K-55-V and might have the solder terminal upgrade by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 ---------------- On 12/15/2004 1:38:52 PM swells wrote: Yes it has the 12" k-22 driver. Well, my first thought was to build a K-horn (true scale)...---------------- Your first thought was the right one, should of stuck with it. What did you "save" in sweat equity making your creation? You had to buy materials, cut the pieces and then assemble it. Would it "really" have been any different if the pieces were a couple of inches larger? You expelled 97% of the effort to get what? The actual design is 60+ years old and has the benefit of anechoic chamber substantiation and a dedicated factory driver that can be bought for ~$130. What the Klipschorn brings to the table is horn loading in the second and third octaves so, assuming you even have a scaled exponential flare, you've lost the second octave. The upper extension of a horn loaded cone driver is limited by the mass rolloff of the driver which is = 2 Fs/ Qes. For a "round magnet" K33E that is = 2 (35) / .4 = 175Hz. Above this frequency the output falls off at 6dB/octave. The folds make it worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Sorry, but I have to agree with John here. I believe that scaling up or down also requires a change in the expansion rate, and horn length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swells Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hi guys, what a busy time of year. The stores are crazy. The project is going fine, and yes I do notice the whole. Well, I don't know that it is a whole of the fact the higher freq are coming from the base bin. I had the same problem with the Bush horns, simple enough to get rid of the higher freq than to enhance them, not that I want to. I find the vocals coming from the base to cloud or smear the ones coming from the mid horn. I don't think that higher freq take very well to the corners, end up being almost an echo. I will say this though, what the khorn base bin does for the k-22 is amazing, well amazing may be too strong. But the bas is very quick, clear and much lower than in the original sealed Heresy. I was getting about the response @ 37hz in the bin as I was at 50 in the heresy. Should I have built a full scale k-horn, not necessarily. I started this project as entertainment and a learning experience. What did you "save" in sweat equity making your creation? Who said I was trying to save, this is a project I could do with little cost expenditures. I now have 30 hours in construction and at least 15 in listening and evaluating. 45 hour fun for only $120. To build a full scale pair I need another $900 to $1,000 for drivers and $300 - $500 for crossovers and then the finishing starts. I think I agree with HBLDR, when I start shelling out that kind of money, I will have to look hard at buying a used pair. This may be difficult, but should not be impossible. I saw a pair pop up in the Boston area, round trip thats only 20-24 hours. I could rent a van and be back in a weekend. now I just need to save the money. LOL before that time comes, I probably have built a couple of more subs. Looking at an infinite baffle, a dipole or a dipole transmission line. The only drawback to being hocked on DIY is, I am starting to run out of living space. This (the scaled base bin) is really a bad setup, it just needs some work on the crossover and maybe a different mid horn. I think that it could make a really nice speaker, but your right. Do I want to spend the time and money to recreate the Klipshorn. No, I think I watch ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Technically, if it is truly scaled at 82% then the horn expansion rate is not as long as needed for a 40Hz fc, it's shorter and uses a smaller throat and resolves to a smaller mouth and has an 82% of the full-size 22.7" (40Hz) area doubling point length (I guess around 19 inches or so). That will result in a higher fc all right, nothing you can do about that. That would put the fc at about 50Hz, I would estimate. This is slightly better than a LS/Belle in bass performance. I would think that 500Hz would go through just fine. I would go with that for the initial crossover point, maybe 550. I would experiment with the lowest fc 12" driver that I could find, ensure that the throat cavity opening is 10x6.5" and go for it with a 500Hz crossover point. By-the-way, I too go with the above guys in that it's still the same amount of work as a full size version with less than 20% less wood savings and less than the performance of a full sized one. It's clear that you have the ability to tackle the full size job. Before you do another, I would consider doing a full-size one for comparison. Believe me, it costs about the same in wood and effort but pays off in the performance. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 swells, what Khorns plans are you using? Your work looks very nice. I'm slowly coming to realize that I'm eventually going to be building a set. I've gotten some plans stuff from another member, but I'm interested in any that are good. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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