frantic frank Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 I've seen a lot of post around here about SVSubs. Went to their web sight, I'm still confused. What should I use in my system for a sub, how many and how do I hook them up? Frank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hey, Frank, all it takes is an email to techsupport@svsubwoofers.com ...you tell them what Klipsch speakers you have and what you want to accomplish for what amount of money and they will tell you what works... even if it is some other manufacturer. I think you will be amazed at how smoothly they work with LaScalas... As for me, I tried over a dozen subs, and now I exceed the Dolby Reference Level for Bass (all speakers set on SMALL) with 121dB in the entire sweetspot... with Twin CS-Ultras powered by a Samson 1,000 watt amp... and it makes my herd of horns the stars of the show. HornEd ------------------ "Where Legends Live! Klipsch Powered HT" FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30 Center, KLF 30 Mains, KLF 10 Front Effects BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30 L&R Side/Surrounds, KLF 30 Rear Effects LARGE MOUTH BASS: Twin SVS CS-Ultra sub with Samson Megawatt Amp SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and such... Tweakin' On! 2-Channel Music Respite Room ala Cornwall under construction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 HornEd, Holy pace makers 121Db is beyond LOUD! I'll E-mail them and see what shakes. Thanks, Frank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Frank, no one expects you to listen to a sustained sound at that level... and you are right, it is as LOUD as anybody should hear even for an instant. As I understand Dolby's concept, if your sub can hit 121dB across it can replicate any sound, however momentary, that is likely to be recorded on any commercial source material. And that potential is what assures all the realism you are likely to want to handle. My 65" RPHD Mitsubishi, eight Klipsch KLF speakers and a matched pair of SVS Ultras driven by 1,000 watts provides a notch above Reference Level for the neighbor kids watching Jurassic Park one more time... and I think it's time to crank out some more popcorn. I hope that sheds a little light on why the Reference Level is set so high. HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 08-08-2001 at 09:32 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Ed - Every kid should have a neighbor like you!!! Morning matinees at Ed's house, popcorn provided. Of course, the parents will now hate you because their kids will whine about not having a theater like that at home, but that's part of the fun . DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Frank, I note that you have a SERIOUSLY cool setup here... the Sonic Frontiers pre/power pair, the SA-1 (drool drool), the La Scalas, which I would guess sound TEE-RIFIC with that setup... I've heard the Sonic Frontiers line at my dealers, and the Sony SACD player, which from what I've read sounds very similar to the Marantz, and it is WONDERFUL... I have La Scalas as well, though my front end is of significantly lower performance eschelon than is yours... BUTs>, if you've never heard your setup with a subwoofer I think you're in for a treat. The La Scalas don't have any real output below 50-ish cycles, and there's a LOT of content on both music and film that you're missing without the sub. I have an REL Storm I bought about four years ago, which I like a lot - can't imagine using the system without it. However, there is NO WAY it's going to keep up with the SVS subs used by HornEd - from all accounts, they seem to be the system to beat today. WHATEVER sub you wind up purchasing, I think you'll find the entire system lifts itself up several notches once you've got the bass foundation in place. La Scalas with a properly integrated, really good sub are very, very different, and far superior, animals than La Scalas without the sub. If I didn't have the REL, and needed to go out and buy a sub today, I'd go with SVS. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 9, 2001 Author Share Posted August 9, 2001 Ray,Doug and friends, Thanks for the info and the desrciption of the big system. heres my problem;I've got this amp that has no continuity of the speaker ground circuits to one another. It's my understanding that I can't sample both rt. and left channels by some kind of networking device and obtain bass from both chanels delivered to a single sub. Sonic Frontiers says don't tie the ground paths together as the system is balenced from beginning to end or you'll damage the amp.Now this rig's got lotsa power, most listening (when wife is home) is done at around 70-80Db. I figure that is considerably less than 1 watt. SF says it will cruise at 110wpc. So, can I run the speaker leads to 2 non-powered subs (1 for each channel), with a high pass network of sorts(that will give the subs all signal up to say 50hz) then allow the signal above 50hz to continue on to the Lascala's. Sounds simple enough to me but is there a catch 22 to this logic? I don't want ANY additional components in the signal path that are not absolutly needed. Enjoy life today, Frank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Frank, don't think using the 2se to power a pair of passive subs in some sort of arrangement where they parallel the La Scalas would be very workable. The subs are going to be WAAAAAYYYYY less sensitive than the La Scalas, at least 10 to 12 dB if not MUCH more, and I doubt any kind of network is going to let you balance them that way. Also, while the 2se is a very good amp, it's simply not designed to drive the kind of frequencies and loads you're going to present with a pair of good subs. If you take a look at the SVS site ( http://www.svsubwoofers.com ) and check out the Samson S1000 amp, for example, you'd take the preamp output of the left and right channels and run them into the line level inputs of the Samson amp, which then combines the signal to mono. The 3se pre has two sets of unbalanced outputs on RCA's - just run the one set to the subwoofer amp. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Just another thought on Ray's excellent post is that you still will probably want to consider a filter or eq of some type to block high freq's to the subs. Again SVS sells a nice one that could go between your pre amp and the sub power amp. Or a simple crossover network on the speaker leads. Of course I could be talking out the side of my head too. The SVS tech support guys should be able to answer all your questions. I have a SVS woofer with my Cornwalls and it matches very well. I think you will be happy with it. Oh yeah I am jealous very jealous :-) Your setup must sound sweet. ------------------ Main System - CORNWALLS (circa '79 yippe) RC-3 RS-3's (white) SVS 20-39CS Harman Kardon AVR 510 Hafler P505 (running bridged 800W/4 ohms for sub) ProMedia 4.2 v400 for PC Bedroom - KG4's or RF-3's (haven't decided yet) Harman Kardon AVR 20 MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 10, 2001 Author Share Posted August 10, 2001 Finally devine enlightenment I can understand! Well, it looks like one powered sub, summed R/L input, networked to say 50 Hz or so. Rock On! Thanks for all the praise of my gear. Ive been throwing things at my Lascala's since I bought them in '84 and after CONSIDERABLE shopping effort I opted for the Sonic Fronteirs goodies. Oh it sounds marvelous, very, very lush but the best feature is the rig is absolutely quiet! The support of a SVSub 16/46 and a few hundred watts ought to be the end of my messing with the music box. Then I'm going to tackle what to use to acomodate my Sony vpl-vw10hp projector set. Enjoy Life Today,Frank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Once again I make my standard arguement against mixing basshorns with small direct-radiating subs, it makes no sense to me to take a high-output, high efficiency, low distortion basshorn and shackle it to a low-output, low efficiency, high distortion sub. You know guys, as frequency goes down driver area is supposed to get BIGGER not smaller. The best way to sub a LaScala is with another, bigger horn (a Khorn bottom can be mounted to the ceiling, see Matt Kraemers rig on my website), a DIY sub with multiple direct-radiators; such as Mike Bates DIY subs using 8 15" JBLs, or the use of the ServoDrive Contrabass, the rotary servo motor driven dual 15" cones of which can give long excursions without the distortion and dynamics problems of voicecoil drivers, and in a relatively small box too. You guys ain't heard a good turnkey box sub till you've heard the Contrabass, it can truely be matched with basshorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 11, 2001 Author Share Posted August 11, 2001 Hey guys, one more thing to consider. The Sonic Frontirs rig has COMPLETELY isolated channels (the ground paths to each speaker are not joined). It seems I should be assured any breakout network between the pre and pwr. amps does not join these ground paths. In consideration of the difference in quality sound reproduction between Klipsch main speakers and an aftermarket, smaller coned sub could prababley be accepted, as the lower speed freqs. contain less complicated (slower) information reletive to time. Besides the more old dental work I loosen up, the more new crowns I get. Any middle aged, balding & pudgy? guy can't have enough shiney crowns! ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 11, 2001 Author Share Posted August 11, 2001 Audio friends, Is there an issue with the isolated (balenced) cahannels being tapped between the pre/pwr amps to derive a all inclusive bass signal w/o allowing the two channels to get continueity to one another in any way? Sonic Frontiers says in VERY BOLD PRINT not to join the channel/speaker ground ever, as geo thermal melt down would be eminate! Enjoy it every day, Frank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 11, 2001 Author Share Posted August 11, 2001 Oops! double whamy! ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted August 11, 2001 Author Share Posted August 11, 2001 I visited SVSuubs link again and this time I read a whole lot of it. Seems the amps they're selling have XLR. inputs so that puts to rest the trauma of hooking up subs to my rig. Now I have to do is buy! See ya, Frank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox 3 intr. cons. kimber 8TC spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 I don't think you'll have a problem using a seperate powered sub system and splitting the preamp's output, but call Sonic Frontiers to be sure. I get more satisfying results with a 60 Hz xover to my La Scalas. You will want a BIG, powerful, low distortion sub(s) to match your La Scalas. I generally don't like subs, but I have been very satisfied with my *pair* of VMPS Larger Subs (sitting in the corners to maximize output). John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 TBrennan, I share some of you concerns in regards to adding a sub to a basshorn system. Do you have any info on that Contrabass sub? I'm a bit away from this now, but when the time comes to adding a sub, I've thought of building my own multi-driver system, or looking into a horn sub such as the Edgarhorn Sub. MacKlipsch is supposed to be auditioning that sub soon, so I'm interested in hearing his opinion. If practiacality doesn't lend to any of those options, I may just have to sacrifice and get something more common. Since I'm mainly interested in adding a sub for home theater, that is the area I'd be more willing to make sacrifices. I don't want to make any compromises in my two-channel audio system. The Contrabass sounds intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 JMON---Go to www.servodrive.com There is an explanation complete with photos and diagrams of how this unique sub works. Unique and new are words that are thrown around in the speaker business but this thing IS unique, so far as I know it's the first new practical motor system since the late 1920s (I'm not counting RCA's experiments with compressed air driven woofers :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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