jim-analog Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Greetings, I'm in the process of doing upgrades on my 1986 K (corner) Horns and have been reading this bb for a few months to get some ideas. I've been looking into different drivers and will probably go with the Emminence Kapas for the woofer. Not sure about the squaker driver (though I am installing dampened (plastic) horns from my LaScallas today to replace the aluminium stock ones. My current question is has anyone tried using the EV T350 tweeter (either in place of the stock driver or on top of the cabinet mounted seperatly)? I recall having read about it's use somewhere else, but couldn't find the article. Some info on my system: Al's x-overs on order, bi-amped with 75 wpc tube amp on woofer, 14 w mono blocks on sq/tw. TIA! ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Jim, I would definitely NOT go for a T350 tweeter. It is nothing but a normal T-35 with a big magnet to make it more efficient. It will upset the ballance of squawker to tweeter! Also be careful what woofer driver substitute. The Klipsch bass honrs use a "restricted throat" and require the correct driver. You might look at what I am doing to my Belle Klipsch (click on the little house icon below). It has been an adventure and I am yet to decide if it's and improvement or not. I am not done though. I think the weakeast link is the squawker horn itself. I went to an Altec 511B horn and mounted the tweeter vertically. That was definitley an improvement in dispersion. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Al The belles look awesome, and you have some really nice serious equipment WOW!! And if all that equipment is needed, to test the crossovers, i sure wouldnt even try to build any!! Nice mcintosh!! Wish i knew, i just sold all my mcintosh on e-bay, they were getting old, loosing the punch!! Nice, regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Thanks Jim.. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim-analog Posted August 10, 2001 Author Share Posted August 10, 2001 Hello Al, Thanks for the reply. Here is my reasoning for looking into a more efficiant h/f driver. I made some response plots of my system and found the largest discrepency to be in the 10K and up region where the response is dramaticaly down. Taking into account your x-over design which allows for various squaker taps, it seemed a more efficiant h/f driver _could_ be integrated well into the system and perhaps alleviate this issue. As for the woofers, I had initially been searching for a pair of JBL D-130As; after a few conversations with some driver suppliers, I was advised that that would be an incorrect unit to use in this application. The Eminence Kappa was recomended as being quite similar to the OEM part, but about 3dB more efficient and much sturdier. I forgot to mention that I'm also using a sub (Velodyne UDL-18) crossed over at about 72Hz. By virture of the bi-amp system at the wooofer/mid interface (using a combination of low level passive and active x-over elements), I felt it would be possible to make any required balance adjustments via the power amp levels to compensate for woofer level. As for the squaker horn itself, seems many have suggested accoustic damping. I happened to have a pair of LaScallas' which the previous owner had done a pretty good job of damping the horns. I'm in the process of swaping out one to see how this effects things. Any suggestions would be most welcome as purchasing different drivers for expermintation can be an expensive proposition. BTW, a very impressive job you did on your Belles! Regards, Jim ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted August 10, 2001 Share Posted August 10, 2001 Jim--Besides being more efficient the T-350 has more extended highs than the T-35, this by virtue of the more powerful magnet. I doubt very much that ANY woofer will do a better job in the Khorn than the K-33 or even as good a job. If you want to replace the mid driver use the old JBL phenolic diaphragm 2470. Best thing to do to improve the midrange IMO is to do as Al is and replace the mid horn itself. As you need to go down to 400 cycles the only halfway decent-sized horns I can think of are the discontinued EV SM 120-A (I used it with LaScalas, great horn) or the Altec 311-90. Look at my horn site to see the SM 120As, go down the page to Matt Kraemer's EV rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Sorry, An edit experiment resulted in a double post.. Al K. This message has been edited by Al Klappenberger on 08-11-2001 at 08:23 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Jim, It sounds like you have good reason to consider the T350 tweeter, but you might wait until you get my networks installed. My network seems to measure 3 dB less loss in the tweeter filter then the "AA". I don't know about the other KLipsch netwroks though. As to the squawker, the JBL 2470 may be an improvement, but do NOT use the 2420, 2421 or even a new 2426. They can't handle power low enoughg in frequency and their high end stinks! At least it does on an Altec 511B horn. Al K. This message has been edited by Al Klappenberger on 08-11-2001 at 08:24 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim-analog Posted August 11, 2001 Author Share Posted August 11, 2001 Al and Tom, Thanks for the replys. Al, you make a good point about waiting till the networks are installed; I _am_ trying to do this methodicaly, one item at at time. Yesterday I completed the squaker horn swap from the stock aluminium horn to the dampend plastic LaScalla horn in one speaker. After a few hours of listening I'm not sure of the results yet....seems it may be a bit over damped to the point of slowing transient response. Either dampening the aluminuim horns or undamped plastic horns may be a better option. I'm very impressed with the work both of you have done to integrate larger horns to Klipsch bottoms, but at this point I'm not up to the woodwork involved nor is a "naked" horn going to be acceptable. For now, I want to try and get the maximum performance using the stock horn with an improved (?) driver. Tom, I'm curious that you feel there isn't a better woofer than the stock Eminence that I'm using, though I don't feel that frequency range is much of a problem source for my system. The increased top end response of the T-350 _was_ what interested me along with it's efficiancy. I imagine the sensible thing to do is to wait for the xover networks to arrive then replot the response and listen carefully. Thanks again! Regards, Jim ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Al--Oh, I don't know, I find the top end of JBL 1" drivers sounds quite nice. They are not as extended as some seperate tweeters but I think they sound very natural and lifelike. Of course like all compression drivers power response rollsoffs in the 3-5khz range but use of a horn like the 511B or Edgar Saladbowl with collapsing directivity can give response to the 15-17khz range on axis. I've never been happy using tweeters with them and I've used T-35s and JBL 075s and 076s; I always seem to hear the tweeter as a seperate voice. Note that the old aluminum diaphragm LE-175s and 2420s actually are a little more extended than the titanium diaphragm drivers that came later, the titaniums were developed for better power handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Jim, I had a talk with Emminence a while back about the K-33E. They make it just for Klipsch and it's not for sale to the public under another code name. Emminence also said that they don't make anything close that they would suggest using in the Klipschorn. I'm about ready to order another pair of K-33E's from klipsch. The surrounds on one of my pairs are startng to wear thin. Just thought I would pass on the information to you. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim-analog Posted August 14, 2001 Author Share Posted August 14, 2001 Hi Q, Thanks for the info. It seems you frequently get conflicting details, particuarly if someone has something they want to sell you. BTW, an alternative to buying new drivers is to have them repaired. There are a few really good speaker repair shops that can replace surrounds, do re-cones, etc. It's probably less expensive if all you need are surrounds. Ping me off the board if you need a recommendation for this. Regards, Jim ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim-analog Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 Hi Al and Tom, Just an FYI on the JBL 2470; I downloaded the spec sheet, which shows a f/r of 500Hz to 12K. The recommended x-over point is "500Hz or higher".It's about -4dB at 500, and over -6dB at 400. Just thought I'd pass this along. Regards, Jim ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Jim--Thanks, I just looked up the 2470 in my big JBL book. That's a phenolic driver, the aluminum 2420 has much better top end response and is smoother on the bottom too. Much depends on the horn the driver is fitted to when tested too, those old JBL specs are on the big 2350 radial, those things are only 75 bucks each at Jammin Jersey and I already have the throat adaptors down to 1", hmmm. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Tom, you want a pair of 2350? I'm in Iowa just off I-80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaner-Bob Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I have a couple of K-33's, in good shape, from a pair of La Scala's if anyone is interested. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Hi Bob, Good to see you around here. What is your rig like these days? Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bob Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 my 1960's vintage custom built khorns came with jbl 375 mid drivers and t350 tweeters. unfortunately, only one t350. i traded it for 2 t35s, which needless to say sounded better than 1 t350- but the t350 was smoother and went higher than a t35. i had to turn down the t350, the t35s barely keep up with the 375s. i've also replaced the original narrow aluminum horns that came with the 375s with community fiberglass pa horns that are as wide as the cabinet. really openned up the 375s- detail and imaging are incredible!! ------------------ mr.bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim-analog Posted September 10, 2001 Author Share Posted September 10, 2001 Greetings, I've tried to find info on the T350 at both of EVs' www sites with no luck. Are they a current product? If not, does anyone have data sheets on them and a suggestion where to find a pair? Not sure if this is the route I'm going to take, but wanted to look into it further. TIA! Regards, Jim www.analogbros.com ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Jim, T350 3.5k-23K Hz 99.5db 50 watts Baffe opening 4.88" High, 2.38" Wide magnet weight: 1 lb. This is from one of my old Electro-Voice parts catalogs T35a or Klipsch K77 3.5k-20k Hz in one book, 15.000Hz in another book 96.5 db 20 watts Baffle opening 4.22" high, 1.69" Wide magnet weight: 6.8 oz 8 ohms Q. ------------------ Q-Man This message has been edited by Q-Man on 09-10-2001 at 07:18 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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