meuge Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I am currently putting this kit together. I'll keep updating the thread as I get closer to finishing. So far I have installed the amplifier, and I am now covering the inside with acoustic foam. My first impressions are that the build quality is excellent, and that while it does take significantly longer than an hour to put it together (mostly due to the fact that I am trying to cover every inch on the inside w. the foam), the instructions are simple and straightforward. The driver is huge, heavy, and looks quite intimidating, and the 19.5" cube cabinet is very large, but not outrageous. P.S. Unfortunately there will be no detailed pictures of the building process because I cannot locate my digital camera. However, I will take some pictures as soon as one of my friends gets here with his digicam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Looking forward to your pics and a review of it's performance. I'm not very handy but I'll admit I'm a little intrigued by some of these DIY subs. Possibly a good way of getting great performance for a bargain price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 cost and SPL at 20 and 25Hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-764 is the URL for the kit, and the driver specs are at http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-420. One could model it, and there are spreadsheets out there to model in-room response as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 yeah, what have you got into it so far? what have you measured in your room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 In an 8 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 20Hz, the Dayton Titanic III 15" sub should be capable of 114dB at 20Hz and 115dB at 25Hz. With room gain, that could be as high as 124dB at 20Hz. Cost is $700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 OK... The kit has been assembled and here are some of my first impressions! The kit is very easy to put together in terms of technical skill required. Frankly, it's something that literally ANYONE can do, provided they can lift the final product, since it's large, bulky and is awfully close to 100 pounds. It is not, however, an hour's worth of work, at least not if you're doing it alone like I did. At the very least it's 3-4 hours, and that's if you hurry. What consumed the bulk of my time, was lining the cabinet with acoustic foam. Due to the bracing inside the cabinet, it's not nearly as easy as it seems, and in my case, I went with a design that included 12 pieces, but I spent a long time figuring it out, since I wanted to make sure that every available inch of surface was covered. Then I had to remove all the foam I had meticulously cut within the last hours, and put it back in piece-by-piece, this time securing it to the walls with the 3M spray-on adhesive (the only necessary component that wasn't included with the kit). Once the foam was in place, it was just a matter of connecting the driver leads, and screwing the driver in. This process was very difficult since I had 2 different sets of hex drivers and neither would fit the bolts well. Taking great care not to strip the bolts, it took me a good 45 minutes to an hour to install the driver, working mostly by hand. The grill is very nice, and the installation is easy. The pegs that secure the grill are very well made, and hold the grill securely in place, without being a hassle when the grill is taken off. This is one bit of engineering that Klipsch speaker makers need to learn so desperately (and have, with the RX-X5 series of speakers). When finished, the sub looks very nice, and is about as unintrusive as a 15" monster can be. Before I go on to my first impressions of the sub's performance, let me emphasize that according to the many online sources that I became familiar with, before building this sub, the driver requires anywhere between a few days to two weeks or longer to fully break in, so I am saving my final verdict until then. But the first tests are overwhelmingly positive. The bass is really tight, without even a tiniest hit of boom. I listened to the sub without my mains, running it up to 120Hz, and it is quite tuneful, even before break-in (it's only been running for 15-20 minutes). A quick check of the frequency response in this tiny room yields the F3 at a disappointing 26Hz, but with a -10dB point somewhere around 19Hz, something that I have never experienced. In comparison, the HSU VTF-2 that I had previously was down 3dB at about 30Hz, but went to below the measurement threshold by 25Hz. I attribute the high F3 to the room, as well as the placement of the sub, because when pushed, using the parametric equalizer (which I will refrain from using until the sub is broken in), I was able to hear/feel the sub down to the 16Hz test tone. In terms of output, it is clearly far and above my demands. To get the sub to blend with my RF-3IIs, it's enough to move the gain dial maybe 20-25 degrees (less than 1 hr clockwise). The amount of headroom that the 1000W amp provides is infinite as far as my needs are concerned. I have not had a chance to test the max SPL this thing can produce, and I doubt I will, since by 11 o'clock (on the gain dial) the sub threatens to shake the building apart, while still maintaing very clean sound. Anyhoo, I'll be back later with more on the sub's performance. As for the pics, they'll have to wait till Sunday, since my camera was finally located at my parents' place, and my friend never showed up, because of a family commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 congrats on the purchase. i have the 10" kit and for the most part its very impressive. only $350 shipped to my door + tax. sometime id like to move to the titanic 15" but that will have to wait. just for fun, how does this sub compare to mass market subs SQ wise and also spl/depth wise? scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I follow Brain Weatherheads lead and assign one point for very 10dB above 70SPL of output at a deep 20Hz to create a shake value. Then I divide that shake value by the subwoofers retail price to get a shake value price/performance ratio: the most 20Hz bang for the least buck. Using this ratio, the Dayton Titanic III 15" kit easily comes out the best (assuming maximum output at 20Hz really is 114dB. It has a shake value slightly better than the powerful SVS B4 box (at 4.2) and yet costs FIVE times less! The next best 20Hz price/performance ratio is the tall SVS 20-39 tubes at $599, but much less output (91dB). After that, the output at 20 or 25Hz doesnt increase significantly, but the prices do: my used Klipsch LF10 at $550, PSB Subsonic 5i, Velodyne CHT-15, Atlantic Tech T70.1PBM, M&K V76 and JBL S120PII, at $799. The dull sounding Atlantic Tech T70.1PBM is the least expensive one in my dozen, at $425, but with low output at 25Hz and only 82.2dB output. Its shake value/price ratio is twice the Dayton: each 10db of output at 25Hz costs twice as much! Except for the Parts Express kits, large, used subwoofers are the next best value, followed by the least expensive models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 there's a lot more involved in a sub's performance than spl at 20Hz. a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 OK... here are some of my impressions this morning: WOWEEEEEE!!!! I put on "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin and it was a knockout. The drums were tuneful, crystal-clear, and packed a mean punch. Furthermore, there was not even the slightest hint of boominess, even in this crappy room. I turned off the sub and listened to the song again, but I didn't even get to 2 minutes in, before I had to turn on the subwoofer again - I had realized how much of the sound I'd been missing! My current settings are: 36dB/Octave Slope Crossover @ 40Hz Gain -> 9 o'clock (!!!!!) Para EQ settings: +4.5dB, center at 30Hz, width 0.4 Octaves this gives me a fairly flat response all the way down to 25Hz or so, w. -12Hz @ 17Hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee_vr6 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Note that the projected 20hz performance listed above is for an 8ft^3 box, which a 19" cube is not. Expect FAR less than that out of the supplied enclosure. Let's say that the 1w/1m 20hz output is 80db (not unreasonable given an assumed 90dB 1w/1m base sensitivity and a -10dB point of ~20hz). From what I have read there is some EQ built into the amp. Even with a "modest" eq of 3db (it's probably more like 6 or even 9) the effective headroom available is now 500w. watts/Db 1-80 2-83 4-86 8-89 16-92 32-95 64-98 128-101 256-104 512-107 So, what we have is an estimated 107dB output at 1m with the amp at clipping with the assumption of 3db of EQ. With 6db, 104dB should be expected. Keep in mind that the 80dB measurement is *with* room gain, likely over 15db, which leaves us at a ground plane measurement around 92-96 dB at one meter. This is spot-on performance out of a small sealed box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 ---------------- On 12/31/2004 12:49:59 PM sivadselim wrote: there's a lot more involved in a sub's performance than spl at 20Hz. a lot more. ---------------- Exactly,some newbies go by SPL mostly.If this was the dominant factor we would all own PRO stadium speakers.Max SPL is but one of the many factors making a quality sub or speaker. Take a velodyne HGS18,and compere them on music,there will be little to compare besides SPL.As both my HGS18 distortion and accuracy will make these caveman kits sound...ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 ---------------- On 1/1/2005 2:58:43 PM TheEAR wrote: ---------------- On 12/31/2004 12:49:59 PM sivadselim wrote: there's a lot more involved in a sub's performance than spl at 20Hz. a lot more. ---------------- Exactly,some newbies go by SPL mostly.If this was the dominant factor we would all own PRO stadium speakers.Max SPL is but one of the many factors making a quality sub or speaker. Take a velodyne HGS18,and compere them on music,there will be little to compare besides SPL.As both my HGS18 distortion and accuracy will make these caveman kits sound...ordinary. ---------------- the 15" titanic may be awesome for music. i don't know. i wasn't really commenting upon that at all. i was commenting upon the "SPL @20Hz per $" method for evaluating a subwoofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayok275 Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I too own the 15" Titanic kit and have very impressed by its performance thus far. It is very musical and has outstanding build quality. Some people are so critical of a product without a namebrand. Well, my ears are very happy and for less than $700, who can complain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ---------------- On 1/1/2005 10:42:45 PM rayok275 wrote: I too own the 15" Titanic kit and have very impressed by its performance thus far. It is very musical and has outstanding build quality. Some people are so critical of a product without a namebrand. Well, my ears are very happy and for less than $700, who can complain? ---------------- It's his nature! And human nature for that matter! Anyway, just different points of view. Maybe not critical, but seasoned. You know those grandpas who've seen and done it all? They like to "tell-it-like-it-is." Anyway...critical of products without name brands? Dayton is a name brand, just not one of the same consumer group as some of the others. I'd like to hear the titanics sometime if someone is in the general area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 i agree. i like non-name brand products too. you dont get screwed on the price and get a great product. i could care less about the logo on the speaker. EDIT: i was replying to rayok275 post above. not CAS's. CAS beat me to the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 If anyone in the general NY/tri-state area, or within otherwise reachable distance, wants to hear the Titanic III in action, you're welcome to drop by. P.S. I'll have pics and detailed sound quality impressions ready by Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ---------------- On 1/2/2005 2:05:10 AM meuge wrote: If anyone in the general NY/tri-state area, or within otherwise reachable distance, wants to hear the Titanic III in action, you're welcome to drop by. P.S. I'll have pics and detailed sound quality impressions ready by Sunday. ---------------- I might just have to take you on that offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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