Colin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 What do I listen for? The second part of this question is like tackling the quarterback: not as easy as it looks. When I seriously audition, in my own home, with the same music and equipment, for EnjoyTheMusic.com - any piece of equipment - I usually do two things. First, listen to a familiar piece of music, sometimes several, before making the switch. Second, listen to a new piece of music on the equipment before listening to older more established tunes. There are arguments both ways, I know. If I remember correctly J. Gordon Holt was a proponent of listening to new selections when evaluating equipment. He thought new ones negate preconceived notions of how things SHOULD sound. I thought enough of his arguments to plan on buying one new (used) piece of music each month before starting a new review process. (Just an excuse really to make the trip, trade some discs and spend some money). Certainly, I listen carefully for EnjoyTheMusic.com reviewing criteria (http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/judging/): bass, treble, mid-range, image and soundstage. Also since I have big ole horns, dynamics. But I also listen to how the music makes me feel. What discs or movies did I end up watching with this system? As I swap from one piece of equipment to another, do the changes I notice remain? How can I solve the problems that I notice? How does this unit rate compare to others I would buy in what way? Which was better for what? Would I buy it? What would I buy instead? And, most importantly, how did it make me feel? Did I enjoy it? Did I Enjoy The Music? I intentionally run through many of the same discs which really gets tiringboring even. These are referenced in my Bio (http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/reviewers/acolinflood.htm) and my Test CD articles. However, it is helpful to listen for how the new piece of equipment interprets the recording. Often, it is a revelation. There are sonic effects that dont really stand out, that are now on the stage. There can be a difference in pace and definition, bringing a cymbal, for example, out from the background, so it is not ear candy off to the side, but an accompaniment to the major melody, as if the composer intended a juxtaposition of two or more instruments. Interesting. Never heard that before. Sometimes, the affect of the loudspeaker (mostly loudspeakers so far) can be so dramatic as to change the type of music one prefers. Not that tall thin towers like the Vince Christian e6c system, for example, made me love classical music and hate smooth jazz. Cause they didnt. But they did such a good job with it, especially when coupled to the superlative Pass Laboratories Balanced Single-Ended X250 monster amplifier, that it was hard not to keep listening to orchestras. Even when I had only a few quality classical discs! Since my dollars are as thin as everybody elses, I seek the least expensive way to accomplish the most incredible sounding sound system, over the long run. The new piece cant simply impress me with WOW! in one showing, but has to be something that I return to again and again. Classic Audio Reproductions Cinema Ensemble loudspeakers did that. ASL AQ1003 DT tube amplifier did that, RealTraps acoustic panels and classic Klipsch corner Khorns did that too. They each made me return to the living room every chance I got to play another piece of music or watch a movie. Thats entertainment. Convenient, safe, enjoyable and relatively cheap. I do ask to review things I am interested in buying. Often I end up purchasing the units usually because I cant bear to part with them. I do try to find things that I like about units. I am well aware that the vast majority of the public drives typical sedans and SUVs, not specialized folded industrial size horns. Just because I am shooting for the most realistic 3D sonic holographic image in my own living room, for the least money, does not mean that every body else wants the same thing. (Line from As Good As It Gets movie: we all want that dear, it doesnt exist!) Hell, lately I have been looking around to find one - ONE! - room that is perfect for a multi-channel home movie and music reproduction system. So far, nobody I know or place I have stayed or house I have seen, is set up for a good stereo listening room with just three good equidistant walls, let alone a nicely shaped, modest size, four-wall room without major openings, perfect for a home theater. And this includes some drooling megabuck mansions along the western and eastern sandy shores of sunny Florida too. I guess that nobody wants that. So the second part of this question is not as easy as it looks. Arent you sorry you asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 By "IN YOUR FACE" do you mean that it's dynamic and startling or that it is presented too-far-forward, or otherwise is disturbing? On my system, it is not the too-far-forward (which I do not like either, myself). The soundstage is from between the speakers and goes "back" beyond the facing wall. The drumming at the beginning is clearly presented in the middle of the speakers, not foward of them, and maybe a little back from the line a bit? I switched from KEF 4's to corner horns and while I have a rather poor listening space (a converted one-car garage), the corner horns SMOKE the KEF's, but then they cost alot more, too. However, the KEF's cost me $3000 new for the pair, and I thought that they were actually better before I had horns to compare them to. So I thought that I knew what soundstaging was before I got horns and became enlightened. However, I set up the horns to produce a soundstage quite a bit "like" the KEF's only much larger and deeper, but definately not forward of the speakers. Mainly it boiled down to wall treatments and wires to control the presentation. What I go for is a stable presentation of the "space", comfortable to listen to, but as close to a virtual rendition of the soundstage as I can get, placed back so nothing "sticks out". It can call attention to itself, of course, but not "move forward". It needs to act as if the instrumentation was placed in space and stay there. It also (and possibly most importantly) needs to be relatively life-sized, and certainly NEVER larger than life, but this isn't to say it can't be LOUD. It is a size and proximity thing rather than a size thing, if that makes any sense. For example, I like Diana Krall, but on the one cd I have of her, she is recorded too closely, so that in context with the rest of the soundstage, she seems to be in too "close up", or oversized in comparison with the rest of the instrumentation, In the case of F&BBs Tricycle, of course the dynamics are exagerated, but that does not move the soundstage forward, it just gets louder; the instrumentation does not move around and loud passages are not strident or harsh - just "louder" in the same amount of space as before. At least that's what I expect... The effect of space and the ability to "reproduce" (perhaps sb: "fake") a church-like soundstage has introduced me to the enjoyment of large massed choir and orchestra pieces, pipe organs, and a love of dynamics. The emotional sound-track-like ballets and the works of Stravinsky are fabulous, with the only downside being the time it takes to listen to the things in their entirety! The issue of a recording that sounds good on everyones system? or the recordings most listened to by the largest number of listeners. I want the best recording. "The gold standard"...I was hoping that I'd found one or two. Maybe not. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Not sure about your tastes, but I do enjoy listening to classical music now and again. I also find picking out classical CDs to be frustrating, since you might find a great conductor, performance, etc, but the recording quality leave something to be desired. I stumbled across some CDs from Nimbus Records and the few I have are very good. Some of the CDs I have included a pull out that tells you how they set up the mikes and performed the recording. You shut your eyes and your there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 ---------------- On 1/4/2005 9:52:25 AM seti wrote: ---------------- On 1/4/2005 9:40:42 AM 3dzapper wrote: The Greatful Dead can open others eyes with their "China Doll". ---------------- Have you heard the original by Slim Whitman? Wow weird sh!t. ---------------- Pretty sure China Doll was written by Garcia & Hunter. At least that's what the album and various Grateful Dead books I own say. I'd love to hear Slim Whitman's version though. Where can I find a copy? Are you sure ole Slim didn't do a version of Garcia & Hunter's song? Rick - That IS a great showoff song. I love the MFSL LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiles Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Stevie Ray Vaughn on the get tar! Stealy Dan is cool too. Not to mention like so many others: Pink Floyd, Norah Jones and Dianna Krall. Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Queensryche - Road to Madness Black Sabbath - War Pigs Black Sabbath - Electric Caravan Ozzy - Mr. Crowley Rush - Subdivisions Dire Straits - Greatest Counting Crows - August and Everything After Jewel - This Way Vanessa Carlton - Paint it Black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 ---------------- On 1/4/2005 11:33:32 PM garymd wrote: Pretty sure China Doll was written by Garcia & Hunter. At least that's what the album and various Grateful Dead books I own say. I'd love to hear Slim Whitman's version though. Where can I find a copy? Are you sure ole Slim didn't do a version of Garcia & Hunter's song? ---------------- Sorry you are correct I guess thats what happens when you assume they are two different songs. I was going through a stack of my dads old 45s and 78s and found several Slim Whitman and I couldn't resist. I remembered his music from Mars Attacks and just had to listen. Not sure what to say about him but wow how weird. The guy can sing/yoddle sorta like a slide guitar hard two tell when they seperated. 1956 Slim Whitman China doll I'm tired of crying and all your lying, That's why I'm buying a china doll. Her eyes are bluer, her faults are fewer, Her lips are truer; my china doll. I'd rather have a doll of clay That I could call my own, Than someone else just like you With a heart of stone. She'll never leave me. She'll never grieve me, I'll never lose her - My china doll. I'd rather have a doll of clay That I could call my own, Than someone else just like you With a heart of stone. She'll never leave me. She'll never grieve me, I'll never lose her - My china doll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 For a concert you should try Clapton's One More Car One More Rider, DVD, in DTS the sound is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 ---------------- On 1/4/2005 4:22:58 PM D-MAN wrote: By "IN YOUR FACE" do you mean that it's dynamic and startling or that it is presented too-far-forward, or otherwise is disturbing? In the case of F&BBs Tricycle, of course the dynamics are exagerated ... DM ---------------- What I meant by "in your face" was that the dynamics are startling, as you put it. They're not disturbing, or too far forward. You can just be caught off guard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 ---------------- On 1/4/2005 4:15:31 PM Colin wrote: Hell, lately I have been looking around to find one - ONE! - room that is perfect for a multi-channel home movie and music reproduction system. So far, nobody I know or place I have stayed or house I have seen, is set up for a good stereo listening room with just three good equidistant walls, let alone a nicely shaped, modest size, four-wall room without major openings, perfect for a home theater. ---------------- This is the major subject I spend my idle time considering. Looking at room proportions, what makes for a good 2-channel system, but will comfortably and efficiently support HT, multi-channel speaker arrays as well as people! It's fun to get out the HP 12C, a pencil and paper, and start drawing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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