artto Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 That's pretty cool. Just inspired some ideas. Maybe we should talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Hi Rob! good to hear from you. Yep, I'm running JBL baby-butts. Well, I've had 'em for a week of tweaking and I now am getting a "grip" on the care-and-feeding aspects. Needless to say, I am developing a love-hate relationship with them. They are far more punchy than I expected from the "old" plywood prototypes of a different horn design, and are exposing my listening space for the P-O-S one-car garage that it is (or was). Needless to say, room treatments are not quite ENOUGH. Actually, the space isn't really shaped correctly and I'm on the short wall. Ain't it always something! But I would expect to have the same problems with a real Khorn lashup, too. The things really crank it out, and they go low. Better in both cases than the old version. Quite the impressive little numbers, if I do have to say it myself. The nearest analogy that I can make as far as performance is they seem to combine the best aspects of both the Khorn and the La Scala. The punch of the LS combined with the low frequency capability of the Klipschorn. They are rather a blend of the PWK designs for the most part. Not bad at all! By the way, the black grill cloth is growing on me (or am I just lazy?). DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Warning! Warning, Will Robinson! The lower crossover point of 400Hz is not valid for this design. Way too much mid-bass frequencies from the bass horn. Gives a "smearing" effect with the midrange horn. I'm already using the 3x13" cavity opening for the K33E, too. Don't want to go any smaller there... Needs a higher crossover point or a steeper slope (or both). I had expected some theoretical increase in the mid-bass, but not to the point that I would have to change the crossover point and could keep my ALK-A's. I guess that was some wishful thinking. On the brightside, I have a test cd with a 20Hz - 20Khz sweep, and I can hear (feel) the 20Hz with less than 1/3 watt on the Mc300 meters. That's a new one! Also, a note on the top cabinet: when doing the "frame" type cabinet with a riser, like in my pics, PUT IN A FLOOR for the top cabinet above the riser. Makes things a whole lot easier in the long run. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Ouch! I'm putting the hammer down on a pair of extreme-slope crossovers. 600Hz and 5800Hz crossover points keeping the 3-way configuration, but allowing for a 2-way when I'm ready to head in that direction with a wooden upper-frequency horn all pretty and such... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Here is a pic of the top without the top cabinet showing the stop-gap temporary arrangement of the midrange and tweeter horns to lessen the "smearing" that is occuring due to the mid-bass coming from the bass horn and also coming from the midrange, as previously posted. Note that it is pretty far back on the cabinet, more than I want it to be. It doesn't remove the problem, just lessens it to a somewhat listenable point. Sort of even sounds good for the most part... {edit} gee, I sort of miss the look of all those Auricaps that Dean did on Hoggy's ALKS! Let me think about that... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthorns Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Congrats on a first class job! I am in love with the cabinet colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Ok! Now this is all coming together for me! I was wondering what those mid-horns were, but recognized the baby fanny tweeter, which I have heard nothing but great things about. What fabulous woodwork -- it's just glowing and rich; and far better than I could ever manage with a my hand-held DeWalt circular saw. Now it's time to go back and re-read the post on the ES networks. Tomorrow, with some help from Marie, I have something I want to to try with the Klipschorns! Erik ...it never ends.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 ERIK : If you need any help ever w/ moving heavy stuff...call me . I am here for you, day and night !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I appreciate that Craig -- thanks! I've decided I'm going to discipline myself on this one. We have the Lexicon up and running, a total of 4 nice looking throw rugs up on the walls to kill that echo (which has really helped!), and I think I'm going to just enjoy some music for a change. What I wanted to try with the Klipschorns is similar to what I was going to do with the La Scalas a couple of years ago, and it's just too much work for what I'm able to do right now. D-Man's project has just been kind of inspiring for me, and I am also interested in Al's extreme slope crossover concepts. Needless to say, the Altec midrange horns are pretty fascinating, as well. In the meantime, I have a couple of projects to finish up for some others! Thanks for your offer to help me, I hope you're enjoy those new amps! PS: You mentioned one channel was down a couple of dBs. You might check the L-pad setting on the squawker, because one might be a little lower than the other. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2RockU Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 ERIK : "You mentioned one channel was down a couple of dBs. " Found a problem cable....replaced it and it fixed everything !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 say, D'Man ..... maybe you should experiment with a Electronic x-over ...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 D-MAN and I discussed that. Most electronic crossovers only have a 24db/octave slope though. The ESNs smoke that, so each driver really does its own range. I thought you could at least use them to get a more precise idea of the crossover point you wanted. I will be using one to try some cabs (soon I hope) Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 ---------------- On 3/9/2005 4:13:50 PM Marvel wrote: D-MAN and I discussed that. Most electronic crossovers only have a 24db/octave slope though. The ESNs smoke that, so each driver really does its own range. I thought you could at least use them to get a more precise idea of the crossover point you wanted. I will be using one to try some cabs (soon I hope) Marvel ---------------- Marvel, well, the 600Hz ES xover point is ok, but it will demand that you have ENOUGH free wall run on each side to propogate without colorations. I would guess 3 or 4 feet free on both sides of the cabinet, which I do not have. So I am not concerned that the xover is too high, but that the space I have them in is too small. But a big screen tv or the like in between and there could be some coloration due to reflections, etc. I suppose that would be the case on virtually all horns, but 600Hz is approaching critical mass. So I wanted to say that the environment will have to be taken into account in choosing the crossover point. PWK MUST have run into this same issue at some point, too. I noticed that recently Klipsch has published a 450Hz crossover point for the Khorn versus the traditional xover point of approx. 400Hz. The tradeoff is that using a 600Hz ES xover point give the whole thing a wide and deep soundfield with an openess and transparency with EXTREMES of depth that frankly the midrange horn is not capable of, in my opinion. I will never go back to a 400Hz crossover point, that's for sure. So it is a tradeoff, environment or transparency. I would guess that for GENERAL environments, with not-quite-enough free wall space available, I would go for slightly above 500Hz, maybe 525 or so, in order to make use of some of the available 500Hz fc midrange horns and drivers that are available. That should also allow for a 2-way situation, if desired. The 600Hz flavor is an excellent choice for larger spaces with 3-4 ft or so of space on each corner. I don't have that. But I can tell that the sound is fine, it is just bouncing off of large flat surfaces that are essentially, in the way. Something to think about, anyway. The design does do 600Hz fine; don't read this the wrong way, but 500Hz might be more "adaptable" to different environmental situations. Or you could change the splay angles at the mouth like a Jubilee and go even higher, like 800Hz or more. I don't figure that its quite worth the work for the gain, myself. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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