mtbiker731 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Yo - I'm deciding to sell the 20-39PC+ for a Sunfire EQ or a Super Junior. Definately no room in my new living space for that cat tower. What will be the big differences minus the EQ feature between the two, and even the Signature? Thanks! Ben Johnson -Anyone interested in a trade perhaps? I'd be happy to throw in more $$ to make up for price differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr-dezibel Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I have no personal experience with SVS, but I'm very satisfied with my Sunfire Signature. Powerful deep bass out of a tiny box. Incredible!! The True Sub would have been enough, but as costs don't matter I went straight up to the Sig. So there's no chance for upgrade bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 There will be a very noticable difference between the Junior and the True or Sig. Not that the Junior is any slouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Don't buy anything less the the Signature. The other subs will bottom out on you when you listen at loud levels. It's better to have the extra head room. I started with the smaller sub and had to bring it back for the Signature. It's a good sub as long as you keep it under 60Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaZero Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Yeah, I agree with the others...just go straight to the Signature/Signature EQ. Signature is one bad little mother, I still get amazed at the amount of air my Signature pushes in such a tine enclosure. That woofer is a site to behold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Sunfires are nice (always been a Carver fan from years ago), but why not stay with SVS and buy their PB12-ISD/2 box sub? Only $999 with shipping, and has selectable 16Hz, 20Hz, or 25Hz tuning with included port plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 ---------------- On 2/14/2005 10:13:35 PM mtbiker731 wrote: Yo - I'm deciding to sell the 20-39PC+ for a Sunfire EQ or a Super Junior. Definately no room in my new living space for that cat tower. What will be the big differences minus the EQ feature between the two, and even the Signature? Thanks! Ben Johnson -Anyone interested in a trade perhaps? I'd be happy to throw in more $$ to make up for price differential. ---------------- Take it from the TheEAR the human SUBWOOFA.The Sunfire Signature is THE best choice,it goes DEEP,can play at sustained HIGH SPL and before this beast bottoms out your ears will flap like elephan ears. I have ALL sunfire subs and even two Carver subs(Bob Carver designs too),plus many other subs.The Signature is a better buy even at its going price. Good luck(you do not need luck,just a Signature) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 same amount of floor space though, just not the tall look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The sunfire will have loud bass from a small box. It's THD, however, will be higher. Here is a quote from COF/IG who reviewed the SVS PB10 against his Sunfire True MKIII. "I recently measured the THD on the test files and found the Sunfire had twice the THD of the PB10 at the same frequencies, so I am not trying to say the True Sub is some god. However, for maximum output and low frequency extension, the Sunfire edged out the SVS." You can read the entire review here: http://www.soundenvironments.org/filemgmt/index.php I don't agree completely with his review, however. His FR measurement seems a bit off and it's funny how he faults the SVS for a higher decay time, but doesn't even mention in the review that the Sunfire had twice the THD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 1:34:21 AM xcjago wrote: The sunfire will have loud bass from a small box. It's THD, however, will be higher. Here is a quote from COF/IG who reviewed the SVS PB10 against his Sunfire True MKIII. "I recently measured the THD on the test files and found the Sunfire had twice the THD of the PB10 at the same frequencies, so I am not trying to say the True Sub is some god. However, for maximum output and low frequency extension, the Sunfire edged out the SVS." You can read the entire review here: http://www.soundenvironments.org/filemgmt/index.php I don't agree completely with his review, however. His FR measurement seems a bit off and it's funny how he faults the SVS for a higher decay time, but doesn't even mention in the review that the Sunfire had twice the THD. ---------------- Do you know little one that this "high" THD is a non issue as you would not tell by ear sub A from sub B unless the THD was grotesque. You probably forgot this,as you only READ reviews.Do you have real hand and ears on experience with the Sunfire subs?I doubt The only sub cleaner audibly than the Sunfire and SVS are the newer Velo HGS called the DD.These servo control subs have an auto EQ that makes them cleaner than any competing sub save for a few subs using a similar audio correction technique. So the higher THD of the Sunire is small talk for web rats reading alot and testing too little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 True I have not heard the Sunfire subs, however, I know that 10% and higher THD is audible. That is why Tom Nusaine uses it as a limit in his subwoofer testing. And yes I know all about the Velodyne DD subs. They are very nice subwoofers with amazingly low THD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 11:38:01 AM xcjago wrote: True I have not heard the Sunfire subs, however, I know that 10% and higher THD is audible. ..... ---------------- and have you heard a sub with 10% THD or did you just read that somewhere too???? BTW - having many of COF's comments on the sound and vision forum, i know that you need to take his postings with a grain of salt..... much of what he posts is really just b.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Yes, I have. Are you trying to make a point? Perhaps you think you know more about subwoofers than Tom Nousaine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Also here's something Mark Seaton posted on AVSForum: "True, and in fact this is really only of concern for some of the Sunfires and other heavy limiters driven well past their limiting point. With some of the Sunfires you can actually crank up the 20Hz signal and get more 40Hz than 20Hz" Link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=485911&perpage=20&highlight=sunfire%20signature&pagenumber=4 I suppose you know more than him as well eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 11:55:09 PM xcjago wrote: Yes, I have. Are you trying to make a point? Perhaps you think you know more about subwoofers than Tom Nousaine? ---------------- my point is that i will refrain from commenting about ANY piece of audio equipment unless i have experienced it personally.... it is very easy to cut and paste comments from around the web from other people btw - i HAVE personally heard the sunfire subs...several different models in fact...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Just because you have heard the sunfire subs does not make your opinion more valid. I guess you're one of those people who thinks that detailed testing and measuring of a sub means nothing and that all that matters is "hearing the sub." The funny thing is that a lot of people don't realize that THD does not always sound "bad." In fact some people like the THD that some subs produce (Sunfire) because they think it makes it sound louder. I think I'll take the word of Tom Nousaine and Mark Seaton over yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 ---------------- On 2/17/2005 9:47:08 AM xcjago wrote: Just because you have heard the sunfire subs does not make your opinion more valid. I guess you're one of those people who thinks that detailed testing and measuring of a sub means nothing and that all that matters is "hearing the sub." The funny thing is that a lot of people don't realize that THD does not always sound "bad." In fact some people like the THD that some subs produce (Sunfire) because they think it makes it sound louder. I think I'll take the word of Tom Nousaine and Mark Seaton over yours. ---------------- really? since when did listening to audio products become less important than reading spec sheets and test results???? as to my "word"..... did i make any comment on the sound of the sunfire sub??? did i make any comment on the pros and cons of testing of subs??? did i make any comment disparaging the work of tom nousaine or mark seaton??? no - to all of the above.... my only comments were directed at your personal lack of experience with the sunfire subwoofer line... anyone - even you - can sit behind his computer screen and cut and paste comments from all over the web.... take some time - go out and listen to these subs yourself - AND THEN your opinion might carry some weight... until then you are just wasting bandwith here on this forum because anyone who really is concerned about specs and test results would have already found those results with a simple google search... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 You are obviously missing the point. Yes, I have not heard the sunfire subs (although I would definately like to someday). HOWEVER, the information that I posted about THD is FACT. You can deny it all you want and say that it's not audible but the THD is still there. I never said that testing and measurements were more important than personal listening. I think they are both important. I think the measurements are integral to understanding the true performance of a subwoofer. If you are looking for a subwoofer that is loud, deep, and has low THD, then measurements are crucial to understanding this. If you are satisfied with simply listening to a subwoofer, then that is fine for you. I am not cut and pasting just any info from the web. I am posting quotes from professional, qualified experts. These people have done extensive testing on subwoofers and know a lot more about them than you do. There is nothing wrong with me posting their quotes here. I am not taking them out of context and I am not claiming them as my own. I think the original poster has a right to know about the sunfire's THD. Are you refusing to believe that the THD is there just because "I" haven't listened to the sunfire myself? That's just rediculous. What do you want me to do? Get Tom Nousaine or Mark Seaton over here to tell you about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 ---------------- On 2/17/2005 10:26:17 AM xcjago wrote: You are obviously missing the point. Yes, I have not heard the sunfire subs (although I would definately like to someday). HOWEVER, the information that I posted about THD is FACT. You can deny it all you want and say that it's not audible but the THD is still there. I never said that testing and measurements were more important than personal listening. I think they are both important. I think the measurements are integral to understanding the true performance of a subwoofer. If you are looking for a subwoofer that is loud, deep, and has low THD, then measurements are crucial to understanding this. If you are satisfied with simply listening to a subwoofer, then that is fine for you. I am not cut and pasting just any info from the web. I am posting quotes from professional, qualified experts. These people have done extensive testing on subwoofers and know a lot more about them than you do. There is nothing wrong with me posting their quotes here. I am not taking them out of context and I am not claiming them as my own. I think the original poster has a right to know about the sunfire's THD. Are you refusing to believe that the THD is there just because "I" haven't listened to the sunfire myself? That's just rediculous. What do you want me to do? Get Tom Nousaine or Mark Seaton over here to tell you about it? ---------------- i think that the ears said it best earlier in this thread.... Do you know little one that this "high" THD is a non issue as you would not tell by ear sub A from sub B unless the THD was grotesque. You probably forgot this,as you only READ reviews.Do you have real hand and ears on experience with the Sunfire subs?I doubt The only sub cleaner audibly than the Sunfire and SVS are the newer Velo HGS called the DD.These servo control subs have an auto EQ that makes them cleaner than any competing sub save for a few subs using a similar audio correction technique. So the higher THD of the Sunire is small talk for web rats reading alot and testing too little. i do value testing of equipment.... but testing (or reading about testing) without listening is worthless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcjago Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 LOL, alright then. I guess the THD (which gets as high as 30% on some of the Sunfires) is only audible when you are personally listening to the sub. If you've never listened to the Sunfires (like me) then the THD doesn't exist and it's all just a bunch of numbers that don't mean anything. Of course if I go listen to a sunfire now, it won't make any difference since my mind is already biased right? I might actually try to listen for that high THD that doesn't exist. =D p.s. Hey ears, here's some numbers for you to chew on: Velodyne DD-18: 100dB @20hz Servo Setting 8 - 1.85% THD SVS CS-Ultra: 100dB @20hz - 4.93% THD Both from Secrets of HomeTheaterHifi. So you are telling me that you can audibly tell the difference between 1.85% THD and 4.93% THD? And at the same time you tell me there's no difference audibly between 4.93% THD and 30% THD (Sunfires)? Tell me ears, how many SVS subwoofers have you listened to personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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