DrWho Posted March 4, 2005 Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 ---------------- On 3/4/2005 5:54:43 PM silversport wrote: ...but that's AC/DC... Bill ---------------- I never realized how fitting that name was...AC/DC, it's like listening to AC and DC going through your speakers! (for those that didn't catch that, DC is a perfect source of distortion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 If anyone still cares attached is a PDF of an AES paper talking about objective listening tests (ABX) and what some of the variables that need to be controlled are. Shawn subjective-debate.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 ---------------- On 3/4/2005 11:29:36 PM sfogg wrote: "To answer your question about attacking me Yes - I feel as others I do that the technical areas have those that truly enjoy pushing their point of view" " or when a post is made by Newbies asking a question they get a college discussion over their heads" And you see that as an attack? This post is in the technical questions thread... so a technical answer is wrong and perceived as an attack? So everything has to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator? How is anyone supposed to learn anything then? I already posted why I tend to give technical answers, if you don't like that then don't read my posts. On any forum ask a question and you will almost always get more then one answer. For the person asking the question to truly make an informed decision they need to know the reasons behind peoples answers. Only then can they make up their own mind without blinding following the 'popular choice.' If a person doesn't understand something in a post I make they are free to ask questions and I'll try to better explain it for them. To say nothing of the fact that this thread didn't start with a question by a newbie. It was a post by a veteran member of the board posting a listening test to obviously begin a discussion on it. "Shawn, please re-read the posts." I have, have you? "I have taken questions with 50 + views, no replies, answer it, then the dogs are out. Some people take great delight at trying to prove someone wrong." And what exactly does this have to do with this thread or with me? If you re-read the posts in this thread you might note I posted the 1/3dB spl level before you mentioned anything about perceivable SPL level. If anyone was 'trying to prove someone wrong' it would be your later post about 1dB. But I didn't take it as an attack. Nor did I take your comments about the 'decline of the forum' as a veiled insult blaming it on me. Nor did I react to your random thoughts about other threads(laminate?... AC cords?)... which I had nothing to do with. If you have issues with others in others threads that is your and their problem, not mine. "We were not having a discussion." Then I simply don't know what you consider a discussion. "Mark has told me that you have to develop a thick skin" Mark is correct. A person on an online forum also needs to not jump to conclusions about the meaning 'behind' a post. Read what is written, don't try to read between the lines and potentially seriously misinterpret, and then over-react, to what a person actually posts. And if you did misinterpret my posts as an attack I'm sorry about that. They weren't meant that way. Shawn ---------------- ---------------- On 3/4/2005 11:29:36 PM sfogg wrote: "To answer your question about attacking me Yes - I feel as others I do that the technical areas have those that truly enjoy pushing their point of view" " or when a post is made by Newbies asking a question they get a college discussion over their heads" And you see that as an attack? This post is in the technical questions thread... so a technical answer is wrong and perceived as an attack? So everything has to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator? How is anyone supposed to learn anything then? --> Now you are reading into my post and not reading the post. I never staed or advocated dumbing down. Read my posts and state how I told you to dumb answers down. I did state what I do. Now I will add if they wish more information, they are free to post. PM or email me. Sending them to Google is sending them to a wealth of information that can be part of a theory. That does lead them to gain more knowledge and learing, if they wish. I already posted why I tend to give technical answers, if you don't like that then don't read my posts. On any forum ask a question and you will almost always get more then one answer. For the person asking the question to truly make an informed decision they need to know the reasons behind peoples answers. Only then can they make up their own mind without blinding following the 'popular choice.' If a person doesn't understand something in a post I make they are free to ask questions and I'll try to better explain it for them. --> I have always advocated an open mind. You made a point regarding the extremes, I could do that, but if they are buying Audio Products, my point is to answer the question, then add. Or make a separate post. I do explain my reasoning. I will send a PM or email asking if the ansewrs posted by many have answered their questions or if they added others. To say nothing of the fact that this thread didn't start with a question by a newbie. It was a post by a veteran member of the board posting a listening test to obviously begin a discussion on it. --> To which you posted here's a better way. Dr, Who is quite intelligent, I imagine that he knows most theoies and methods and ABX. We were both curious as to whether a 1 db difference was noticable. --> No matter how it's put Newbies see it I give them credit for brains, but not all want all theories available... "Shawn, please re-read the posts." I have, have you? -> The entire thread "I have taken questions with 50 + views, no replies, answer it, then the dogs are out. And? Some people take great delight at trying to prove someone wrong." And what exactly does this have to do with this thread or with me? --> you chose to only address me You could have made your own post without using name and noting the 1/4 db. If you re-read the posts in this thread you might note I posted the 1/3dB spl level before you mentioned anything about perceivable SPL level. If anyone was 'trying to prove someone wrong' it would be your later post about 1dB. --> Noted that those were in there, let the person choose to read on. I also noted the 1 / 4 db note after your address to me. But there are questions in some of the Google papers noting 1 db. Which Scientist doe you believe. Expert vs expert... But I didn't take it as an attack. Nor did I take your comments about the 'decline of the forum' as a veiled insult blaming it on me. --> It was not. Nor did I react to your random thoughts about other threads(laminate?... AC cords?)... which I had nothing to do with. --> you posted in the laminate discussion, I made a general comment about how technical some answers were getting. I PMd and emailed you twice to note that I was not making reference to you. The Poster is from the Netherlands, using terms he belives we know, but in fact have a different meaning. If you have issues with others in others threads that is your and their problem, not mine. -->When singled out, re-making a point I did not object to, nor address you and disagree or point out that becomes you and me. Point by me was that 1 db (and some noting 1/4 db) that IS an issue between you and me when singled and you had a chance to repond to the Forun. "We were not having a discussion." Then I simply don't know what you consider a discussion. Not posting using your name. "Mark has told me that you have to develop a thick skin" Mark is correct. A person on an online forum also needs to not jump to conclusions about the meaning 'behind' a post. Read what is written, don't try to read between the lines and potentially seriously misinterpret, and then over-react, to what a person actually posts. -> When I am soley addressed, there is no between the lines. There were two issues I pointed out. The first was toward you the second a general commentary. And if you did misinterpret my posts as an attack I'm sorry about that. They weren't meant that way. --> I took them as condescing and an affront, again stating what I had not disagreed with. Shawn ---------------- Shawn * You singled ME out by name. I espouse what i stated to do A Google search and nting that studies on the 1 db - and actually others are listed. *I noted the basic accepted 3 db difference. If that is a problem and you have to point that out especially after by noting the 1 db is not dumbing down. Nor is it an attack on you, * You had a discussion with Marvel up to the point of my being irritated by singling ME out, I did not disagree with you. * The newbie point goes with this and was first mentioned in a thread in the General questions are. This is the technical forum but newbies do not always know where to post, thus my point. They can see that they "need" to ask questions here, but may not have degrees. * Granted Dr. Who is not a newbie. But we can address the more technical points by a preface statement. I yake the syance of the person postin does not have degree --> Thus all are treated the same. * You made your point twice then you singled ME out. I made no comment regarding your posts and Marvels. No comment by me shows tacit agreement. *The AC line thread has gone on for 5 pages, the original poster already decided by page 2 what to buy. *The laminate is to note those speaking English as a second language and the different terms they use. That was in my post after whicj was the second after yours. Laminates, since you posted thee and most of the answers had to be hypothetical as we did not know all factors, I PMd and emailed you twice to note that there were no hidden meaning to that thread. As far as thick skin, I have that. It was noted by me to show the fact of attacks. And it happens too often. * What you had with Marvel is a discussion. * I did not jump to conclusions, your point was made, some of the 1 db posts note below 1 db difference. * Again the failure to understand why I refer people to Google * As for dumbing down, not everyone posting a question in this portion of the Forum knows what we do. Again my reason to refer to Google after I post answer. There is that point of their choice to investigate further. Some feel Tech Questions is the place to ask about fuse changes. Still no proof that the person has more than passing knowledge. Discusions can easily move to general questions. * I also note that you voiced yor opinion about a better way prior to the test was completed I made my references to the 3 db point - the audio industry notes that. Audiologists still take that into account when conducting a hearing examination. The point in which you first addressed me had been made with no disagreement from me. * I posted no absolutes, I chose the one I found to be quoted and noted. * One of my references if anyone bothered to read focused on hearing damage after long exposure to sounds above 85 db. * I objected to your condescinding manner in your post, as if I had no idea what this was all about. * If you feel that I attacked you by noting the 1 db and that you were wrong, I would have stated "disregard those Articles." I mentioned them did I not? *And I also noted the fact that some hearing aid companies attempt to sell you if you had a 1 db drop. We know that shold not be the case. We have opposing thoughts on the idea of this Forum. If you feel answering question with a brief explanation is not correct, well I am not going back to teachin. I will answer a question or questions when and if I return from surgery and a hiatus away from the Forum. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 College! none, but thats me stage right, http://www.geocities.com/sdgaynor/sb21b.html, http://www.geocities.com/sdgaynor/sb13b.html,the 1982 hit "You Don't Want Me Anymore" which made it to #16 on the billboard pop chart. The video for the song was one of the big early MTV videos which made #296 on the MTV All-Time 500 videos list. A few months later in early 1983 the band followed up this success with "Dreamin' Is Easy" which reached #30. The re-configured band is still very active today, and is one of the top bands on the Northern Nevada and California casino/party/corporate band circuits. As for true pitch ,i was using the term in the sense of a musical instrument;ie a guitar which is never at perfect pitch ,no such thing, all guitars tend to sound perfecttly in tune, in one chord and slightly out of tune in all the others,it is the nature of the construction ,the intervals of the notes, are fixed by the frets ,the precise positioning of the frets, is designed to spread out across the finger board,to minimize the effect of this, this is call "tempered pitch" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 actually - all of current western music is based on a "equal temperment" compared to "just temperment"... and was originally developed for the keyboard "The "equal tempered scale" was developed for keyboard instruments, such as the piano, so that they could be played equally well (or badly) in any key. It is a compromise tuning scheme. The equal tempered system uses a constant frequency multiple between the notes of the chromatic scale. Hence, playing in any key sounds equally good (or bad, depending on your point of view)." http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html many other instruments CAN be played perfectly in tune..... wind instruments and fretless string instruments for example are flexible enough that a talented musician can adjust the notes to fit into the chord perfectly..... (sorry for the off-topic comment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 Nice thread DrWho, I enjoyed it while it lasted. Unfortunately it stopped being fun about a dozen posts ago. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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