sunnysal Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 While setting up and breaking in my new Creek passive volume control I noticed that mid mid-horn on my right speaker is making a "blatting" sound...only on loud passages at relatively high volumes when a really strong impulse hits the mid frequency but it will "burp" loudly!...sounds just like a blown speaker does! however I suppose it could be some other component in the chain...I have the CD player feeding my Marantz 7T SS preamp (recently rebuilt, but showed no sign of making this sound for the last couple of weeks) which then runs through the passive preamp and on to the dynaco MkIV monoblocks, the amps are connected to the K-horns through a short length of Cardas speaker cable...could the amp be making the noise? I have been using them for about six months since they were completely upgraded, at times at very high volumes, and never heard this horrible "brbbbrrraaapppp" from the mid-horn...they are set up to run in triode...could that be clipping?...if it is the horn driver how do I confirm it? what then do I do? and of course, how do I avoid doing it again? the damn amps only put out about 35 watts! HELP! Tony ------------------ *1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs*Marantz 7T preamp*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)*MSB silver digital director (for switching and jitter reduction)*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck*SAE MK VIII tuner*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable*Monster M550i for all interconnects*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner This message has been edited by sunnysal on 09-01-2001 at 11:39 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 Sunnysal Hey, how are ya! I would investigate the new item, if everything was fine till then!! Something doesnt sound right, that suddenly your having problems!! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 Tony, Don't I recall a picture of your amps sitting on top of your horns? Wonder if something might have vibrated loose... if that wasn't you, uh, never mind... In any case, if you have enough wire slack to make this possible, I'd disconnect the amp driving the left speaker from the speaker, leave it connected to everything upstream exactly as is, carry it over to the right speaker, and hook it up to the right speaker. Ditto moving the amp driving the right channel over to the left. Then play whatever it was that resulted in that "blatting" noise. If it now comes out of the other speaker, then there's something amiss with the electronics - you can identify exactly which component by repeating this "swap left for right" excercise, moving one more component upstream each time. If it still comes out of the same speaker, then you've got some kind of problem with the driver, crossover or possibly some structural problem with the cabinet. ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 1, 2001 Author Share Posted September 1, 2001 thanks Ray, I will try the amp thing...are you suggesting that it is the electronics because I could not "blow" the k-horns? that is my fear...would they sound great at mid volume (loud for normal humans)listening levels (they truly do) and do the "blat" at top volume if I had blown the mid driver? or would it sound bad at most volumes? p.s. get ready for post number two about my klipsch patio speakers...life in salvador aint so sunny today... ------------------ *1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs*Marantz 7T preamp*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)*MSB silver digital director (for switching and jitter reduction)*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck*SAE MK VIII tuner*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable*Monster M550i for all interconnects*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted September 1, 2001 Share Posted September 1, 2001 Tony, No, it wasn't a case of thinking that the electronics were the more likely culprit... it just seemed that moving the amps was the easiest way to pinpoint whether the problem is with the speakers, or with the electronics. That would be my first step. Sounding good at normal levels, then "blatting" at louder levels, could be a mechnical problem with the driver, with the interface between the driver and the horn, with the crossovers (a bit of a stretch, I think...), or with the Dynacos or the Marantz. One of the tubes might be going microphonic at high levels, or might be non-linear at higher voltages, amp could be clipping (seems unlikely, I know, but the bass impedence of the KHorn, as I recall, drops pretty low at lower frequencies, and I don't know how happy the Dynacos would be trying to push a lot of current into the deepest bass at high levels...), lots of possiblities. Swapping amps and seeing what happens is the easiest and quickest way to eliminate half of the potential problems. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 1, 2001 Author Share Posted September 1, 2001 I will begin that process now...thanks, tony ------------------ *1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs*Marantz 7T preamp*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)*MSB silver digital director (for switching and jitter reduction)*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck*SAE MK VIII tuner*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable*Monster M550i for all interconnects*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted September 3, 2001 Klipsch Employees Share Posted September 3, 2001 Sunnysal, If you try the amp thing you could hurt the driver. I would look at the back of the driver. If it is a "M" driver, I have seen the black plastic back air chamber get loose. If this is the case, the sound will happen at a certain volume and frequency. You can sometimes find this by "tapping" on the back of the driver. If it is not loose, then you may be: 1. Over driving the driver. A: dont turn the amp up that high... 2. You could have a cap that is braking down. Letting to much bass into the mid driver. It may hold up at low volume and not at high volume. A: you could send the amp into Klipsch for repair / testing. You will need to get a RA and pay $60. 3. A problem in the electronics. A: do as Ray suggested swap the channel. to see if the problem stays with the speaker or the amp. Let me know what you find out. You can call me or e-mail me. trey.cannon@klipsch.com 1-800-554-7724. ------------------ Trey Cannon Technical Support Klipsch Audio Technologies This message has been edited by trey cannon on 09-04-2001 at 09:12 PM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 4, 2001 Author Share Posted September 4, 2001 thanks trey, I am "out of position right now", on a business trip but I will try the amp swapping idea this coming weekend and check the air chamber...will let you guys know the outcome...BTW I installed Al K´s x-over less than a year ago so the Caps should be brand spankin´ new...regards, Tony ------------------ *1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs*Marantz 7T preamp*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)*MSB silver digital director (for switching and jitter reduction)*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck*SAE MK VIII tuner*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable*Monster M550i for all interconnects*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Trey, "...If you try the amp thing you could hurt the driver..." How? What I meant to suggest was connect the right amp to the left speaker, and the left amp to the right speakers. Did I garbalized my post up so that it sounded like I was suggesting something else, or is there something about that process that you're advising caution about? Inquiring minds want to know... Thanks, Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted September 4, 2001 Klipsch Employees Share Posted September 4, 2001 Ray, If he swaps the channels on the amp and there is a problem with the amp and that channel did hurt the original driver, he could hurt the other driver. This is not where I would expect to see the problem, but never say never.... That was one of those "just in case" statements. ------------------ Trey Cannon Technical Support Klipsch Audio Technologies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 13, 2001 Author Share Posted September 13, 2001 thanks guys for the help, this weekend I will wade into this issue with both feet, I will drag my McIntosh amp down from upstairs as well to really work out all the combos...I will troubleshoot more exactly the problems with the patio speakers as well...audio hell in salvador! ------------------ *1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs*Marantz 7T preamp*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)*MSB silver digital director (for switching and jitter reduction)*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck*SAE MK VIII tuner*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable*Monster M550i for all interconnects*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 30, 2001 Author Share Posted October 30, 2001 update...patio speaker problem solved...it was the ADCOM amp...as another b-boarder pointed out the adcom is a bridging amplifier and that was the reason given for it shutting down...if anyone can fill me in as to why the bridging amp should shut down I would be very grateful...since swapping the adcom for another amp it has worked fine ever since...re: my right k-horn and it burping of the mid-range squawker...well, I have toned down the volume a little and no re-occurnace in listening sessions...but at just the right frequency and loudness I can make it happen at will...aaarrrrgggghhhh...tony ------------------ *1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs*Marantz 7T preamp*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)*MSB silver digital director (for switching and jitter reduction)*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck*SAE MK VIII tuner*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable*Monster M550i for all interconnects*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner This message has been edited by sunnysal on 10-30-2001 at 12:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 A bridge amp has two 'hot' outputs per channel.Running it through the speaker switcher shorts out one half of the amplifier.You have '93 Klipschorns with ALK networks.How much of the original wiring did you retain?Does the wire from your amp run straight to the ALK or do you use the stock input terminals on the Klipschorn bottom and run the wire up to the ALK from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 1, 2001 Author Share Posted November 1, 2001 djk...I kept the wire from the lower section and run it up to the alk crossover...the amps connect to the alk...the good news is that with the pioneer inegrated powering the patio speakers I now have no problems!...another piece off equipment goes into the closet! (sorry ADCOM)...regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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