Pest Tressings

[Clipped and Shorn]

My test pressings are due to arrive momentarily. I am anxious to see how the vinyl compares with the "reference laquer masters" which I have played here on my system. Hopefully fini will get his Khorns up and running with his upgraded crossovers so I can check the pressings on at least one other person's set up. The main thing besides noting how they sound is to make sure the hole is centered before doing a run with any numbers. I am working on the graphics so I can get some labels made up for the main pressing which will be quite limited, no more than 100-500, probably just 100.

Mostly I am excited about the 12" 45rpm. Is this also called an "EP" or is that term mostly for the 7" version of the 45 rpm with 2-3 tunes per side?

The 12" 45rpm will feature just the two latin jazz tunes I composed with the fabulous Tony Pagano on flute and the late John Rae on vibes for one. I play all the other parts: piano, bass, and percussion. Even though this 1986 project was recorded on 16 track 2" tape (analogue!), the bass parts I played were done on a DX7 (that was state of art back in the 80s, I used it for "bass", "marimba", and "violin" etc. Granted, the very best way to record music is to have a bunch of well rehearsed cats in the studio laying down the music "live", but this was not practical at the time, mostly because of the trickiness and idiosyncracies of my tunes, my perfectionism, and just try to find a bass player who can play in this style, they are few and far between (forget about almost every self proclaimed jazz bass maestro out there). It was not that long ago that Al McKibbon was one of the only bass players with a clue to latin jazz. Anyway, the necessary rehearsal time would not have been practical, so I opted for this method of mullti-tracking prior to inviting in the soloists who could thus work out their ideas and practice ahead of time. As it was, Tony nailed both tunes on the first takes (he is an amazing player), and John on the second take got close enough for jazz.

All this is to say, it is not in every sense a perfect recording as I would do it today, but it is what it is and I am excited to reissue it on vinyl just for kicks. Originally it was a cassette only production which was marketed in the "New Age" category (sneaking in the latin jazz aspect to that market, it did quite well in its day) and so this concept led to the presence of actual surf sounds and real tropical birds throughout. (they needed no rehearsals). It is way hipper than Martin Denny (exotica) of course, but admittedly not totally unrelated. Actually the two featured tunes are closer to a Cal Tjader type of arrangement. The 33rpm LP (with 6 tunes) on the other hand, captures more of this New Age aspect, although it still eliminates the longish slower meditative piano piece which will now only be a bonus track on the CD. (couldn't fit onto vinyl ...you want to keep it under 20 min. per side for best results.

This reissue project is partly prompted by my interests in audio and it has been a revelation to get this close to the old techniques of cutting vinyl, a real learning experience. Hopefully there will be future such projects, eg. analogue inspired recordings which will sound super on great tube audio systems which can play vinyl. That is the whole idea.

C&S

[Clipped and Shorn]

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On 5/13/2005 11:18:23 AM mdeneen wrote:

"and just try to find a bass player who can play in this style, they are few and far between (forget about almost every self proclaimed jazz bass maestro out there)."

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Why is this difficult? If I recall, when you played at the club in Penn Valley (The night HornEd came in), you were not happy with that bass player either? Although he sounded fine to me.

mdeneen

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The whole history of the Cuban influence in music goes back a century or two at least and pivots on that note which takes place on the and of 2 and a then on 4 (see the history of the Contradanza, the phenomenon of the Habanera and the "Spanish Tinge" in early Jazz etc.). This rhythmic structure must be adhered to strictly for the groove to be correct. Problem is (for the jazz bassist used to seeing the chords and playing the root or whatever at that spot) in the "tumbao" rhythmic pattern for Cuban based music (latin jazz or whatever), the note played by the bass must ANTICIPATE the chord before it happens. Sometimes this means certain chords must be skipped over and choosing the correct note to both preserve the harmonic anticipation AND keep the rhythmic structure of the bass pattern makes this a real challenge. If the bassist does not know the idiom , this is very difficult to do on the spot, and most jazz musicians believe in a kind of aesthetic "laziness" wanting to keep things spontaneous and easy to better emphasize their personal artistic improvisations (a different art form and one I also dig). These tumbao bass parts are not indicated in most charts because it is assumed that the bassist knows the idiom. In latin jazz or Cuban inspired music there are complex folklorical underpinnings which must be adhered to and these things are complex and not obvious and cannot be spontaneously come upon by the average jazz player who hasn't studied it, not to say they might not be able to read it if it were written out, but that does not lead to a good feel usually, and as I stated, most charts do not include these bass parts. Usually their egos preclude an understanding of the very necessary study, so few of them know how to do this. When they do get it and study it and perfect the idiom, then they are so in demand that they are unavailable for the most part, they will be working all the time in several bands. I recently rehearsed with a latin jazz (salsa) band that was trying out a jazz bassist and it was a disaster, so I chose not to take the gig (until they found a better bass player,--good luck) it was that painful to play with things not being right. I am a perfectionist, and this is nothing to apologize for, being an important ingredient in music, IMO. Playing percussion with a "wrong" bass player is totally exhausting and depressing.

To create the true hypnotic and engaging effect of this music, that bass part and all the interlocking percussion should be exact, however, this is not to say that various compromises cannot produce acceptable music. That bass player you heard was somewhere in between and was ok for the most part, but far from the perfection I was looking for. You see now, why I usually end up composing the bass parts and playing them myself, at least for recording purposes. There are only a handful of bass players in the whole Bay Area that can do this, and it is a whole other can of worm$ getting them up here in Sonoma county.

Maybe for a future project I might think about hiring one of these guns so I can create the "live" sound with all the necessary punch in the recording studio.

The parts are deceptively simple, but few musicians are humble enough to actually respect the idiom, although this is finally changing due to better media exposure and instructional materials AND they know there will be lucrative gigs with the new popularity of this music (moreso than jazz gigs these days). Cuban based, African derived, rhythmic traditions are tied to healthy tribal and communal practices of dance, song, religion, and secular customs. It is not a "junkie" thing, but rather a strong dance in the Sunshine. There are now pretty good books being written on this whole subject.

There are several books on the subject now and I feel there is no excuse for a bassist not learning this idiom if they are presumptuous enough to take such a gig. A true latin jazz bassist, or for that matter a good salsa bassist is a rare gem and always well employed. Most jazz bassists who look into this discover it is simply too hard so they give up. I requires a real mathematical type of facility to get right. Then there is the clave, and then there are those complex rhythmic "breaks". Al McKibbon befriended Chano Pozo in Dizzy Gillespie's band back in the late 40s and learned the idiom, he later was the choice for Shearing and for Tjader who added the Afro Cuban structures to their jazz music. He was in a sense the first latin jazz bassist, although there was a whole thing going on in Cuba which most people do not even know about.

C&S

[Edgewound]

Sorry if you've already said, but who's doing your pressings? RTI? Can I buy a copy? I'd love to hear your stuff.

[fini]

c7s,

Fantastic post, man. Really.

[Clipped and Shorn]

I am doing business with Rainbo

Although, now that you mentioned RTI, I just gave them a call and got the tour. I am learning new stuff all the time.

Thanks for the interest. I will let folks know when I get to that point. At least it is on vinyl and transferred from analogue to analogue, that's got to be worth something these days. Mostly the 45 EP (?) will feature an exceptional jazz player, Tony Pagano, who is very obscure and under recorded. He did remarkably well playing in this latin jazz setting thus giving me a level of jazz inventiveness (on flute) which one rarely hears in latin jazz. Artie Webb comes to mind, I will bet he would dig Tony's playing too.

C&S

ps. latin jazz with all the percussion and stuff really is, for me, a great way to show off the old audio system. It is some of my favorite music but I also dig all kinds of jazz and other.

[Timmikid]

all right!!! keep us posted! You will get rid of some vinyl here!

[ben.]

clipped,

Your points about the difficulty of this style of bass playing is more true than I'd like. Coming up the ranks in college, as well as afterwards, I never really felt that the latin stuff we did felt right, even when playing the charts verbatim with the big band. It just wasn't inside us. No one else seemed to notice, but I never felt good about those songs. Now I can quantify why.

I've always loved the music, but never could get over the lack of authenticity.

I know what you mean regarding playing with someone who doesn't quite get a particular style or pocket. I usually left big band rehearsals exhausted by the weight of the trumpet section. Trying to drag them along with the rest of the group was work for the drummer and me.

Anyway, great post as usual, and we can assume you'll be offering copies here if you're satisfied with their quality, right?

[Clipped and Shorn]

Ben,

For sure, if this project sounds worthwhile I will offer it up. It sounds like you have some first hand experience with the subleties and problems of getting players onto the same page. In a way it is a small miracle when something good does happen and it makes it all worthwhile. Most of the time things are compromised and that is why it is so cool when the right ingredients are there and it falls into place. Wish I could say I had more experiences like that than I actually have had. Because I listen to alot of great music on recording, my standards are higher, and sometimes the local players don't come up (and I probably do not either ...although the Cuban's I did jam with over there thought I was one of them.....).

I have the wheels turning now for some future projects which hopefully will be both musically and audiophilistically happening.Something to keep me busy for the next few years at least. Vague Hint: hybridizing some advantages of digital recording with a predominance of analogue tracks resulting in something that will mostly have the old analogue sound we like to hear on vinyl.

btw, there are different levels of "authenticity", I can get it pretty good, but when I hear the Cuban maestros, forget about it.

C&S

[Painful Reality]

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On 5/13/2005 12:58:42 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote:

The whole history of the Cuban influence in music goes back a century or two at least and pivots on that note which takes place on the and of 2 and a then on 4 (see the history of the Contradanza, the phenomenon of the Habanera and the "Spanish Tinge" in early Jazz etc.). This rhythmic structure must be adhered to strictly for the groove to be correct. Problem is (for the jazz bassist used to seeing the chords and playing the root or whatever at that spot) in the "tumbao" rhythmic pattern for Cuban based music (latin jazz or whatever), the note played by the bass must ANTICIPATE the chord before it happens.

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Probably one of the most spot on post I've ever read here.

I think one of the really good illustration of what you say would be Choco's Guajira on Chanchullo from Ruben Gonzalez. Reading your post made me spin this outstanding CD again. I think my next vacation is Cuba before the Miami cubans claim it back and turn the music scene into some endless "Miami Sound Machine" clones.