sargeglez Posted September 2, 2001 Share Posted September 2, 2001 I am biwiring my RF-3 speakers but I don't know exactly what is the right wire gauge for the tweeter and the right one for the mids and lows. Could it be 14 wire gauge for the mids and 16 or 18 for the tweeter? Please let me know which one do you recomend in order to get the best sound results. Thank you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 2, 2001 Share Posted September 2, 2001 You may want to consider revising your question, as there are those who don't believe that bi-wiring offers any significant sound improvement, beyond the psychological satisfaction of having made the bi-wired connections. Perhaps your question should be phrased; "What gauge of wire is being used by those who bi-wired their RF-3's". In that case I'm using two 9 ft. length cables consisting of 13AWG and 15 AWG. Only your ears and extensive listening will be able to convince you that your changes produced sound improvements. Some would still question whether they're real or subjective. I recommend sampling different sized cables bi-wired into two equal lengths, but ensure that you can return those cables before purchasing. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lag Posted September 3, 2001 Share Posted September 3, 2001 Use the lower gauge cable (ie - the bigger one) for the bottom end and the higher gauge cable for the higher end. I personally recommend atleast 12 gauge for the low end (10 ga or even 9 ga is better), and 16 ga or 14 ga for the highs. Like the other fellow said, use Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) if it's available. -Mike ------------------ Electronics ----------- Display: NEC LT150 Projector Screen: Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Screen (Matte White) DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05 Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX Equalization: AudioControl C-101 Series III (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2 (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3 (center/sides) Amplifiers: Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2 (rear) Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center Speakers -------- Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish) Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish) Side: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Rear: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss) Interconnects ------------- DVD to DC-2: Generic Toslink DC-2 to EQ: AudioQuest Coral EQ to RB-991: AudioQuest Coral DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Topaz (sides) DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Diamondback (center) DC-2 to GFA-5500: AudioQuest Turquoise (19m of it) DC-2 to Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback Speaker Cables -------------- Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo) Center: Monster Cable Z3 Side: AudioQuest Type 4+ Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted September 3, 2001 Share Posted September 3, 2001 Here's a link to make your own cables. I will be making a pair of these in the near future. http://tnt-audio.com./clinica/ffrc_e.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lag Posted September 3, 2001 Share Posted September 3, 2001 The vast majority of the reason for the larger cable on the woofer (like 99% of the reason) is not the amount of information, but rather the amount of power. It takes a lot of power to move that large woofer cone a few hundred to a couple thousand times a second, but comparatively little power to move the small diaphram (or whatever they call it - I've never really gotten into speaker construction) in the tweeter ten or twenty thousand times a second. Ideally the high frequency cable would actually also be made up of a bunch of very small (24 ga or less) individually insulated copper conductors, rather than one large solid or stranded 16 ga or 14 ga conductor. It's quite debatable how much a role it plays at audible frequencies, but at higher frequencies a piece of copper wire conducts better along the outside of the wire than the inside. While those frequencies are much higher than the audible range, supposedly a portion of the distortion resulting from that effect is within the range of human hearing (according to the expensive audio cable companies - but I believe there are a number of third parties who've also looked into it). For that and other reasons, a very small copper conductor can actually carry more information than a large conductor, just not more power. Regardless, that's very minor, and falls into the same realm as many of the other somewhat esoteric marketing gimmics (er.. design principles) floating around. If you're interested in some of the thoughts going around in cable design, check out AudioQuest's website, Kimber Kable's website, and any number of websites devoted to making your own cables out of CAT5 (my apologies - I don't have the links on me). -Mike PS> Thx for the compliment on the system - I've put a lot of time and energy into designing it and putting it together. Now if only I had a room I could dedicate entirely to it, and could easily do some re-wiring to provide it w/ dedicated AC... ------------------ Electronics ----------- Display: NEC LT150 Projector Screen: Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Screen (Matte White) DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05 Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX Equalization: AudioControl C-101 Series III (front)Amplifiers: Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2 (front) Amplifiers: Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3 (center/sides) Amplifiers: Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2 (rear) Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center Speakers -------- Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish) Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish) Side: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Rear: (2x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss) Interconnects ------------- DVD to DC-2: Generic Toslink DC-2 to EQ: AudioQuest Coral EQ to RB-991: AudioQuest Coral DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Topaz (sides) DC-2 to RB-993: AudioQuest Diamondback (center) DC-2 to GFA-5500: AudioQuest Turquoise (19m of it) DC-2 to Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback Speaker Cables -------------- Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo) Center: Monster Cable Z3 Side: AudioQuest Type 4+ Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire) s> This message has been edited by Lag on 09-03-2001 at 05:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted September 3, 2001 Share Posted September 3, 2001 quote: The vast majority of the reason for the larger cable on the woofer (like 99% of the reason) is not the amount of information, but rather the amount of power. Very true. We always used two or three-way P.A.systems in the bands when I used to do gigs. We always ran alot more power to the bass bins than we did the horn cabinets. It doesn't take near as much power to run horns. It takes a lot of juice to run several pairs of woofers to create the movement of air required for penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 I'm currently working on the Bi-wire Cat-5 cables that have the online intructions on the link in my above post. I finished 1 length and hooked it up to one of my RF-3's and did an A-B comparison. I tuned into a local jazz FM station and turned my stereo switch to mono. The Cat wire sounds much more open. The 12g. AR wired speaker sounds as though there is a blanket over it compared to the Cat-5 speaker. Even my wife noticed a big difference between the two. I did not detect any harshness with the cat-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted September 5, 2001 Share Posted September 5, 2001 Is there a place where you can mail order the CAT 5 from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lag Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Mail order CAT 5 from? Do you mean the finished speaker wire or the bulk cable? A lot of places will sell the bulk cable. The problem is finding somebody who will sell in medium lengths at a reasonable price - you usually get stuck with short lengths that cost too much per foot, or 500' to 1000' spools at low cost per foot but still cost far too much because of the extra length. In my case it didn't work out too bad w/ a 500' spool because I work in the field of computer networking and use the CAT 5 anyways. -Mike ------------------ Electronics ----------- Display: NEC LT150 Projector w/ Da-Lite Model-B 67"x50" Scrn DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-05 Decoder: Lexicon DC-2 DD/DTS/THX Equalization (front): AudioControl C-101 Series III Amplifiers (front): Rotel RB-991 - 200W x 2 Amplifiers (center/sides): Rotel RB-993 - 200W x 3 Amplifiers (read): Adcom GFA 5500 - 200W x 2 Power Conditioner: Monster HTS 3500 Power Center Speakers -------- Front: (2x) Klipsch KLF-30 (black satin finish) Center: Klipsch KLF-C7 (black satin finish) Side/Rear: (4x) Klipsch RB-5 (medium oak) Sub: Velodyne HGS-15 (black gloss) Interconnects ------------- DVD to DC-2: generic Toslink Front: AudioQuest Coral Sides: AudioQuest Topaz Center/Sub: AudioQuest Diamondback Rear: AudioQuest Turquoise Speaker Cables -------------- Front: Kimber Kable 4TC (hi) / Kimber Kable 8TC (lo) Center: Monster Cable Z3 Side: AudioQuest Type 4+ Rear: AudioQuest Slate (single bi-wire) s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 www.partsexpress.comDo a search on cat 5. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 I bought 100' at Rat Shack for 35 cents a foot.You can buy as much or as little as you want. Get the stuff with the blue jacket. They have another type that comes in 100' foot rolls for about $25.00 and it has another type of insulation. The blue jacketed wire has the more preferred 'plenum' insulation. It's time consumming and your fingers will get darn sore,but the effort is well worth it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Speaker cables another subject I like! For the RF-3's or any RF series speakers I would use the inexpensive UltraLink 12 and 10g.Inexpensive and you can pass all the juice you want. From $1 to $1.50/feet,good value.And you can get spade or banana conectors.I use WBT and UltraLink.A bit on the expensive side. IXOS also males great inexpensive consctors. My main sets of speaker cales are Monster Sigma and M2.4S Biwire.I also have Cardas GoldenCross and Transparent speaker cables.On my way to get a complete MIT set. Hey I am a real audiophile what can I do? TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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