Jay481985 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 ---------------- On 6/14/2005 11:33:33 PM dragonfyr wrote: Oh, I may be learning something here! 'Per unit mass' has significant meaning for me, but I will admit to never having to deal nor to be concerned with resistivity 'per unit weight'. And since weight (mass x gravity) changes with elevation while mass (the 'amount' of 'stuff') remains constant...- ok I will simply say I am confused by this distinction and it's pertinence here. But then I am often confused... Personally, in lieu of a compelling reason, I would stick with copper for the ease with which it can be worked, its compatibility with other components, and its resistance. ---------------- ok you got me per unit mass not weight. I was unscientific in that wording but since we live in america when you ask a person their weight they do not say 80 kilos or so they say ~ 178 pounds. Also it is alright I believe to say weight over pounds since the difference between weight at the center of the earth to standing at the poles is almost near negliable i.e. <2% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Dragonfyr, by the time you get into the trunk of most average vehicles, you need somewhere around - 17 feet. If you also count the return path to the battery, you have at least 30-35 feet. Using large gauge wire will reduce the voltage drop at the amplifier, using a "stiffening capacitor" will also help, albeit only on large transients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Here is a chart from Parts Express, per IASCA, for proper gauge sizing for no less than .5 volt drop. http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/cablecalc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 The difference in weight at different locations is negligible and not a reason for concern. (At least not for me!) But mass and weight are not the same, despite the fact that many people use them interchangebly in common usuage. And don't worry about the change in units from British to metric units. It is a common weirdness as in physics we routinely deal with metric while in the kitchen I deal with the British units (pounds, inches, etc...). As far as the appropriate guage, of course use whatever guage is appropriate for the current and the length! I would still go with copper for its better resistance. Smile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 All these posts and not a single correct answer! Michael Hurd was just about dead on suggesting the connector though! Juba, you need the consult the "expert" me! All you need is a 4ga input plug for that amplifier, the standard plug that comes with the Orion XTR-2150 is only for 8 ga wire as you have found out. They are about $15 and they are on eBay pretty regular. I know a couple of people that have them all the time, email me and I will put you in contact. For those that don't know the Orion XTR-2150 is capable of some very high current, it will double down output with each half in impedance, and while 8ga may be sufficient it is better to get 4ga connected to it, even if it is just a short run. While rated officially capable of 2ohm stereo operation it is capable of 1 ohm loads in stereo if you can supply enough current, and fan cool it. Let the idiots on the car audio forums laugh it up, that Orion XTR-2150 is built with mil-spec boards and is far superior to any of the Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean made crap that most car audio manufacturers are peddling today. The Orion 225 HCCA was the most winningest amp in IASCA history and the XTR-2150 is built the same way. Anyone that knows anything about car audio knows that Orion was a force to be reckoned with. Orion of today is owned by DEI Electronics now and is nothing but foriegn made junk, period. Orion used to take a new 225 HCCA have a semi drive over it, take the twisted case and it would bench test like new. The XTR-2150 that I have flew out of the trunk of a Lincoln rolling over at 90MPH attached to a sub box, it smashed into the pavement multiple times, the case is warped and twisted it tore the RCA inputs out of it but I replaced the RCA's resoldered one rail and it is still working perfectly. Here you go! $6 on eBay Just make sure to request the XTR 4ga input plug! The second one from the left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18796&item=5781831065&rd=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 don't you dare drive that thing in my neighborhood- I'll shove that amp up your a$$ NOBODY needs EDIT POST 600 watts END EDIT in a vehicle. How are you or other drivers going to hear emergency vehicles. Have some consideration for others while you drive through neighborhoods, okay? I've edited the number of watts, I stand by my conviction that disturbing the peace and being a public and private nuisance is unlawful in most municipal areas. Too bad the law enforcement wont protect the rights of homeowners from the onslaught of this madness. Do you kids know what kind of damage you're causing to your hearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 "hmmm I'm building a sub with dual tumults and am going to use a qsc plx 3402 which gives like 2400 watts rms at 8 ohms bridged mono. The wire that is going to the speaker is 12 gauge copper. Don't get caught up in all the hype of smaller gauges since they will not exceed 10 feet and such. The normal wire for up to 20 amps (standard homes use 15)" Michael, that is a home setup that he is decribing! Note the QSC amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 HOME setup!?!?!?!? I was taking this with a grain of salt as I cannot think of a reason to drive that level of output in any car I have ever driven! Heck, I don't even need that in my fantasy GT3! I guess that is why the auto competitions go to completely absurd lengths such as to measure the 138+dB SPLs with a TEF! Of course if they would use the TEF for anything other then a high priced SPL meter they would see the folly of their endeavor. Notice I said "see", as their hearing will be permanently damaged. Suddenly bladder contents seem to become more pertinent! So why aren't these amps being used for sound reinforcement and why haven't they put Crown out of business!? Perhaps the electrical service won't accomodate them! And anyone who has toured knows how 'tempermental' the electricians union is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Unfortunately, Dragonfyr it is all about SPL in cars these days, the good ole' days of IASCA Sound Quality testing and measuring in vehicles are long gone! It is all about who is the loudest now, anyone can put bass in a car. Getting it balanced with the front end and making it sound good is another matter. Most kids just want Booooommm! Most of the bass I hear coming from cars sounds like 10 men beating on a rubber raft - just horrid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Jay, yer WAAAY off, Dude listen to Mr Hurd, 'n Freezin and, there is NO # 10 AWG ALUMINUM wire approved for electrical use in America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 way off with? Also I never saw 10 gauge aluminum for sale but I had this home repair book and it gave the proper gauge per amps using wither copper or aluminum. Also I bet I would never exceed 200 watts with the amp that I am going to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 You might want to check the copyright date of the book... There was a 'small' issue regarding aluminum wiring a ways back. It has a 'slight' problem when mixed with other copper components... Sorry, as I thought you were aware of that earlier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juba310 Posted June 15, 2005 Author Share Posted June 15, 2005 I really was planning on installing the thing today... I'm really anxious! Will it be bad for me to hook up the amp by shaving some of the cable to make it fit and leaving it like that for a little while untill I can get the plug shipped out to me? I had my plans all set today for installing it, I'd hate to have to wait another week or two. Oh, and for those of you who are worried about the noise pollution... I don't plan on crusing around at 12am blasting rap... I hate people who crank their subs like crazy just to annoy others, I don't plan on doing anything of the sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juba310 Posted June 15, 2005 Author Share Posted June 15, 2005 Also, I wanted to add that the battery in my car is in my trunk, so the run for the power wire is going to be fairly short... probably around 7 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 "Will it be bad for me to hook up the amp by shaving some of the cable to make it fit and leaving it like that for a little while untill I can get the plug shipped out to me? I had my plans all set today for installing it, I'd hate to have to wait another week or two." No, not at all just make sure there are no stray wires that could touch. I jam out quite a bit, but never in neighborhoods, and never at night. However, I will crank the hell out of it with the windows down and sunroof open if you are in front of me with a cell phone stuck to the side of your face though! My Orion 10" NT2 DVC's can move some air! The XTR-2150 can really get them thumping! Please let me know how things work out, what deck are you using? What are your front and rear speakers, are you using an amp for them or just deck power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juba310 Posted June 15, 2005 Author Share Posted June 15, 2005 I'm using a Pioneer DEH-3600 (pretty sure thats the model #) headunit, and powering two pairs of Pioneer 4-way speakers (6.5 inch driver) from the headunits amp. Nothing too special, but it sounds 10x better than stock. Sometime in the future I'll probably get a 4 channel amp for the speakers, they can't get very loud without clipping the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Juba, It sounds like you're on the right track. Next time you do this, save yourself some coin on the power wire by going to Praxair or some other welding supply house and getting yourself some four gauge welding wire. It is very flexible and has about the same number of strands as the car audio stuff, but you don't pay the big markup for the pretty red or transluscent blue or whatever color the jacket is. Sorry I don't remember just what it cost -- it's been a few years. The distribution block and the adapter are both very good recommendations. Oh, and when you do decide you want a four channel amp, contact me. I have a Rockford/Fosgate 160.4 (from 98 or so when they were building them better than they are now) that sits on my shelf and waits for something to do. I bought it brand new, used it for about a year, and it's been idle since. It drove four 6.5" mains very cleanly to uncomfortable volumes -- plenty of headroom for sane listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 It doens't have to be 12 am to be noise pollution. If I'm IN my home (which by the way is like 200 feet from the road) in the middle of the afternoon with windows closed and stereo on or trying to have a little cookout with friends in the evening and hear BOOMBOOOMBBBBOOOOM from some car rolling down the road in my neighborhood - It's too loud and you're being a public nuisance. Open highway, fine, rock out all you want, ( I do) just not in the vicinity of people's homes or businesses PLEASE. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juba310 Posted June 15, 2005 Author Share Posted June 15, 2005 Olorin, I'll send you a PM about the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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