My ultimate Sound and HT room

[Rudy81]

I am about to purchase a home that may provide me with the ultimate sound and HT room. The dedicated sound room will have maximum dimensions of 20' wide x 26' long x 9' ceiling height. According to various room mode calculations, this is not too bad a room, although it is outside the "ideal" proportions for a room. It is nice and large for my Khorns and should sound pretty good. I will be using a La Scala center, four Cornwalls for side and rear effects and an SVS sub for HT.

I would appreciate any suggestions or considerations to think about in this project.

Although the room will be suitable for Khorn corners, I am considering some of the false corner designs to allow more placement flexibility with the Khorns. This should be a nice project....if I have time in between all the other re-modeling.

[DrWho]

What is going to be your video source?

I might consider setting the khorns up on the wide wall, which will allow you to sit 13 feet back to be in the sweet spot (and also be behind the center point of the room which is good for room modes). Going on the narrow wall will require you to be 10 feet back, which is a bit close to the screen. How many rows of seating are you planning on? The wider setup will also present a wider soundstage which is always a good thing.

If this is a dedicated room I would try to go with putting them in the corners first and see how you like the sound. False corners should really be a last resort if you can't get them to sound right in the corners.

Other things to think about include two types of acoustical treatment...treatment inside the room to keep it sounding good and then treatment between the room and the rest of the house to try and keep the sound in the theatre (if indeed that is an issue), but also to keep sounds from the rest of the house from getting into the theatre. Keeping a very low noise floor is one of the most important things to a dedicated listening room. If you are in the construction process, staggering studs is one of the best places to start. Gaskets around the doors is another thing (perhaps use an "outside" door for use between this room and the rest of the house as they are already built to prevent sound transfer).

[Rudy81]

The video source will be my Sharp Z12000 DLP projector.

The reason I am considering the false corners, is the location of the sweet spot with the Khorns in the corners is a little too close to the 120" screen. Also, the room use as a HT will require a second row of seats, thus making the wide wall for the Khorns not practical for the HT use. Like everything else, comprimises will have to be made.

My goal with the false corners is to allow me to move the sweet spot back to where the ideal sitting position is located.

Room treatments will be rather simple with some diffusors and absorbers, as well as bass traps.

I am guessing that allowing me to "aim" the Khorns to the sitting position will help with the soundstage and imaging. Otherwise, the sitting position will have to be moved closer to the screen.

Floor will be carpeted.

[DrWho]

Well then just make sure you build the false walls very sturdy and long enough to complete the bass horn. You should probably end up using an 80Hz crossover anyway (movie standard), which will also take a good load off the walls and not require them to be as long. There are lots of threads about this, which a quick search should help you find.

You'll probably want to elevate your second row of seats as well, which means keeping that riser free of sympathetic vibrations. Filling it with sand would be an ideal approach, but proper bracing wouldn't be too shabby either. One thing I've always loved about risers is they make for really big subwoofer cabinets, which means you can put some really cool subwoofers underneathe. Just something to think about if you ever wanted to upgrade from your svs

One other cool thing with dedicated rooms is that you can install an equipment rack inside the wall...preferably on a wall with a closet or room behind such that you can have access to the rear of your equipment rack (which makes moving things around infinetly easier). It's also a good thing to put this rack on a wall that's not at the front of the room so that you aren't distracted by all the lights...just you and the movie. They make "light benders" that will make your remote work if you're having trouble with your equipment picking up the signal (a light bender is a little device that reads IR signals, converts to electricity and transfers down a cable to an IR source which then emits the same signal that is being recieved on the other end...so the reciever sits somewhere where you can aim the remote well and then the emitter sits in front of your equipment rack.)

Auralex has this thing where they will give you a free recomendation for the acoustics in your room...since it's free you might as well go ahead and do it and compare it against what you were planning on doing.

Dramatic lighting is another thing that totally adds to the experience. I have no clue where to buy this stuff or how to install it, but I know a few guys on the forums that have spent a fair amount of time getting this right. Hopefully they will chime in (I don't think it has to be expensive either...you are going to be putting lights in the room anyway, so why not use lights that make the room look cool).

[Q-Man]

I have my Klipschorns on the short wall with false corners. The sweet spot is 20' back. I think false corners work better then room corners. You can build them square, so the klipschorns will have a tight fit. Mine our double thick 3/4" plywood on 2x6 framimg. Plenty strong enought to hold the Klipschorn center channel and the LaScala front effect speakers.

[Frzninvt]

Qman that is just unreal! I would love to hear that think cranked up! Mine is pretty sick when I start pumping the watts from my 115 lb DBX behemoths. I chose vertical Cornwalls for the 7.1 since they have more bass presence than Belle's or La Scala's would. Four Khorn's firing at you from four corners is pretty amazing.

You are going to have a hell of a system Rudy! Full blown Heritage baby, it doesn't get much better.

[Q-Man]

Rudy,

I just ordered a C-1 and have a question for you. Are you using the balanced or unbalanced outputs?

I'm going to start off using the unbalanced, because the balanced are 6 db hotter. I'm afraid that that might cause a loud hiss level from the Klipschorns.

[Q-Man]

Rudy,

You can make front effect channels with your C-2 processor. Once you go with front effect speakers you will never listen to music without them again. Yamaha receivers taught me this trick. That's my main reason for going with the C-1.

[Rudy81]

Awesome guys. I was already working on many of these ideas. I'd love to hear about the front effect speakers with the C2.

As far as the outputs, I only use the unbalanced outputs due to the hiss from the balanced section. e-mail me and I will give you the reasons why. I spent a few months working with Parasound on this issue. Our Heritage line is too efficient, and it picks up some system noise due to the 6dB boost in the balanced section.

Rudy

[Q-Man]

I was affraid of that, that's why I planned on starting with the unbalanced.

I'll drop you an email after I get mine up and running. I may have a question or two more by then.

I have mine running silent now, but it took a few tricks with how I run and shield some of my cables to get it that way.

[Q-Man]

The front effect channels come from channels 9 & 10. They are output from PRO 1 and PRO 3 from the four programmble channels. The manual suggest a few ways on how to set them up. I'm going to start by cutting off the LaScala front effect speakers at 60Hz. I'm going to feed the right speaker 70% of the main right channel and 30% of the main left channel with it's polarity reversed. I'll then set the distance a few feet farther away then they really are for a more spacious sound field. I'll tweak it from there. I can tell that I won't be setting this thing up in one night. It's going to take sometime to get it adjusted to the room and my taste.

[J.4knee]

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On 7/2/2005 7:53:30 PM Q-Man wrote:

The front effect channels come from channels 9 & 10. They are output from PRO 1 and PRO 3 from the four programmble channels. The manual suggest a few ways on how to set them up. I'm going to start by cutting off the LaScala front effect speakers at 60Hz. I'm going to feed the right speaker 70% of the main right channel and 30% of the main left channel with it's polarity reversed. I'll then set the distance a few feet farther away then they really are for a more spacious sound field. I'll tweak it from there. I can tell that I won't be setting this thing up in one night. It's going to take sometime to get it adjusted to the room and my taste.

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Q

You will definitely need to keep us posted on this, you have my interest peaked. I too like the front effect option with my Yamaha but at the moment I am a speaker shy to do what I want.

R/Jim

[Rudy81]

Qman:

Outstanding setup. I had seen your set up as you put it together, but never did get the full effect. That is exactly what I need to do with my Khorns. I have found that in my current setup, at the rental house, if I change the angle of the Khorns, the sound field opens up quite a bit. Of course I am not sitting in the sweet spot or I would be eating my screen.

Since we do more HT watching than just critical listening, which I do, it has not been a big deal. But, I love to just sit in there by myself and do critical listening....so, I need another answer than just putting them in the corners.

I have been planning on creating a false wall about 3' from the front wall. I did that in my last HT and it worked great for access to my gear and made a great place to hang the screen, allowing for screen masks for the different video aspect ratios.

I would like to hear some recommendations on IR remote transmitters. I plan on putting my gear behind the false wall. That provides good cooling and does not bother the viewer during a movie.

Qman, can you let me know how you made your wall, dimensions and angles in particular.

Also, in short, the balanced section of the C1 and C2 is not a "true" balanced system. The balanced section is taken from the unbalanced and boosted by 6dB. Otherwise,to have a true balanced system from start to finish, the gear would be prohibitively expensive. That boost caused an audible hiss from my listening position. I can't deal with that so I contacted Parasound. I had some nice dialogue with the President of the company. He got involved in the issue and we found that the high efficience of Khorns, LaS and Belles will "show" this noise. They were just as surprised as I was. They have superb tech support. The simple answer is to just use the unbalanced section, that is unless you have some really long cable runs. We were never able to solve the problem with a stock system. Frankly, with my short cable runs, it made no audible differance other than getting rid of the hiss. I did spend $300+ on balanced cables I don't use.

I had planned on adding a second svs sub for a room that large and will use one of the programmable outputs for that. Otherwise, the front effects theory sounds interesting.

I will say that I can't wait for this project. With the gear I have and some wall treatments, the room should rock. I plan on using some sound absorption, bass traps and diffusers in just the right places.

[seti]

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On 7/2/2005 6:51:45 PM Q-Man wrote:

I have my Klipschorns on the short wall with false corners. The sweet spot is 20' back. I think false corners work better then room corners. You can build them square, so the klipschorns will have a tight fit. Mine our double thick 3/4" plywood on 2x6 framimg. Plenty strong enought to hold the Klipschorn center channel and the LaScala front effect speakers.

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/download.asp?mode=download&fileID=37848&sessionID={817798FA-FDC7-42E5-B4C8-C1FF5652E032}">

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That photo is just unreal I mean those La Scalas look small!

Holy Moly Man

[Rudy81]

After much thought on the layout of the room, as well as study of the room modes in the bass frequencies, I think I will be going with a nice set of false corners. I really liked the idea of corners built into the new wall, but think false corners will be moveable and more practical. I might fill the corners with sand or look into different materials to give them more mass than just the plywood and support lumber.

I have seen various nice designs on the forum, and also have the Dope from Hope suggestions for corners.

[Q-Man]

Rudy,

I'm sorry that I havn't answered your questions yet. I have a lot going on right now. I'll try to get back to you this weekend, and explain more.

I received the C-1 and I have been busy experminting with different set-up options. The hardest thing was getting the front effect channels up.

I've also been trying to pick out a new car for my wife. Last night I took out the 400hp GTO with a 6 speed std. shift. That was fun. I think that might be her next car, except it will have to be an automatic :-(.

The face of the TV is about 40" from the wall behind it, and the false corners are designed to be flush with the TV. The corners arn't just walls. Mine are more like a cabinet with a back,top, and sides. I can actually get inside of tham if I pull the TV out.

The easiest thing to do is draw them out on the floor after you deside where you want your sweet spot to be.

[Rudy81]

Q-Man:

No problem, I figured you were busy "playing" with gear. Overall I had drawn a design to scale and figured it would be easy to do. The problems came up when I ran mode calculations for the new room dimensions. The new room size was less optimum than that for the current room dimensions. Also, since I am starting from scratch, I was getting concerned about coordinating the work I want to do with what the subcontractors will be doing.

I just figured keep it simple and go with the moveable false corners.

Good luck with the GTO.

[Q-Man]

I wouldn't let a contractor/home builder put in the false corners. The position of the corners is critical and I doubt they will get them right. You may also want to change things some.

I changed my room at least 6 or 7 times now , and I'll probably do it again.

[Rudy81]

No, the contractor is not doing that work. He is putting in the basic room. I will be working with the corners myself. I know that the angles relative to the sweet spot are critical and that is another issue that has me leaning to individual corners that I can easily move around if I need to make minor adjustments.