The most awesome take home gift EVER!!!!!!

[zamboniman]

I'm a huge Rutan fan. What a great guy for Aerospace and role model... I just wanted to point out the huge Apple and Orange comparison here. Before I lose the audiance the opening pics in this thread are amazing and are really special. Some of the discussion in this thread has really bugged me though.

Mallette: I can see that you understand the physics involved here pretty well, but believe that you are missing some large key things. Rutan's wing'd re-entry system simple would not work at orbital velocities. It works for his design because it is going very slow in relative terms. The "brute force" approach by shuttle is quite elagant becuase it doesn't require much fuel and it uses free forces available (friction) to it's advantage.

Yes once leaving the atmosphere gaining speed is only a matter of fuel.. You still have the problem of getting enough speed to stay there and then use your fuel approach to accellerate fast enough to maintain orbit.. If you think about it you quickly return to the various design approaches in use today. The bottom line remains you need to go REALLY fast very quickly to orbit. This requires a fast escape from gravity however you accomplish it... Any way you look at it from within or external to our atmoshphere. And with orbital speeds comes the next big issue.. How do we slow down... The wing thing isn't the answer.... You either need a LOT of fuel or the abitlity to take the heat.. The heat being the more practical approach.

ah now I feel better.

[WS65711]

What space travel really needs is for someone to pick up in Professor Laithwaite's footsteps.

Then we wouldn't require wings or rockets . . .

http://www.alternativescience.com/eric-laithwaite.htm

"Laithwaite first demonstrated that the apparatus was very heavy -- in fact it weighed more than 50 pounds. It took all his strength and both hands to raise the pole with its wheel much above waist level. When he started to rotate the wheel at high speed, however, the apparatus suddenly became so light that he could raise it easily over his head with just one hand and with no obvious sign of effort."

[Mallette]

Zamboniman, et al:

I hear you. This has been a fun run and good, civilized discourse. I am still a bit amazed at the level of passion involved, as well as the degree of respect remaining for shuttle technology given the record. Perhaps it is a failure of my spine, but after looking up in my yard that Sunday morning not too long ago and seeing all the various debris trails from Challenger arcing across the sky I've just not been able to take the pleasure I once did in seeing those smiling face board the van to go the the pad.

I'd just wrap by saying I believe that it is best for the future of human space travel to be in private, not public hands and that is the best place for it. I'd prefer to see public monies spent on more Hubble type ventures, planetary landers, and such. They do that beautifully when properly funded and supported.

I recall one of the pilots reporting to Houston on STS-1 "Ace Trucking Company, here..." Didn't work out that way, and trucking is a commercial, not a scientific venture.

Kind regards to all,

Dave

[Mallette]

OK, there I was trying to back out of this, now I find myself opening another whole can of worms! Guess I don't know when to quit...

Got to thinking about the single-purpose nature of SS1. Of course, it had that in common with the Apollo project and for similar reasons. It ocurred to me that Rutan had TWO designs, the other being the Rotan. It is obvious to me that he chose the SS1 due to it's suitability for intended use and simplicity of design (ala Deming theory). However, the Rotan concept was concieved from the beginning as an SSTO device. And it needs neither heavy sheilding nor fuel to re-enter, the autorotating wings do the job. Of course, it's never been tested...but, to my knowledge, no Rutan design has failed yet (he and Von Braun have that distinction).

And, while not a Rutan design, the Delta Clipper (also known as DCX) also proved itself as needed only scaling up to work. It made me nervous using engines for earth landing, but they seemed to have a great deal of confidence in them and they had no engine failures in the program. I was STUNNED when Gore unveiled the "next gen" shuttle design and it was nothing but a bunch of conceptual drawings based on speculative technology. Not surprising that it never happened.

Ok, I am just a dreamer. I'd love to make a journey on a 1500 foot long luxury rigid airship, but that ain't happening either.

Dave