maxg Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 It seems I have been recommending the Denon 103 around here for an age now. I decided that it was about time I tested one out myself - with a working theory that it might be a better tracker on the linear arm than the current Shelter. Obviously it wont ultimately be as good sonically at the Shelter - we are comparing a $130 with a $1300 cartridge here - so lets keep it real. I have had the Denon for some time but not gotten around to attaching it on the arm. This I did last night - but not without a bit of a run-around. The supplied screws are not quite long enough for the head shell and cartridge so I had to locate another set at short notice. Fortunately my ever patient supplier - Antonis at Stepcom - was still in the shop at 9 pm on a Monday evening and was able to provide the necessary bits. The Denon is a fiddly cartridge to fit - requiring both nuts and bolts as opposed to the shelter which has ready threaded holes. The risk of dropping a little nut and spending 10 minutes on the floor trying to locate the damn thing was realised early on. Anyway, eventually I managed to get it to fit - slide a record on the platter and let her fly - nothing. Not a squeak. Check wiring - fine, check phono stage - fine. Hmmm - oh look - the cartridge is not making contact with the record (I had forgotten to look at the VTA - and this was an extreme case of being off - the cartridge fully descended hovered about 2 mm above the surface of the record). Final adjustments made - drop the cartridge and start listening. Initial impressions - there aint nothing wrong with this. Start to pull out all the records I could not play with the shelter (skips due to record being cut off centre). Where the shelter skips the Denon gets down and dirty. This cartridge will track the Gobi desert! Sound is really blossoming now. It is an obviously different presentation from the Shelter - but not an obviously inferior one. The bass response is excellent - realy surprised me. Depth is there - maybe a little less width to the image, but image size and stability is really good. Tonally I am not quite sure - I have detected a few differences here - but it could be run in issues at this stage, or phono stage impedance loading or any of a number of minor setup issues. Needs some play for sure. One thing is for certain. This cartridge is staggeringly good for the money - for double the money, 3 times the money..... The little included booklet (with a completed test sheet showing very flat frequency response and an output measured at 0.36 mV) refers to broadcast and radio stations a lot - I can see this must have been a popular choice for them - and with good reason - cheap, reliable and really excellent sonics. I am VERY VERY impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Max, Good to hear that you got around to installing the DL-103. I have expressed many times how impressed I was, and have been with the DL103D. Impressive sonics for the price of a mediocre MM cartridge. After 50-75 hours of play, it will sound even better. Exhibit less grain, and sound more smooth. A step up to the Denon DL-S1, for those so inclined, yields even more value for its modest cost when weighed against its performance. The DL 103 is a true classic that is easier for you to find in Europe than for us here in the US, which is a real shame. Enjoy the music. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 They are around 130 Euros over here - although I got it for somewhat less - that's $150 in US terms. I cannot imagine there is anything to touch it for this money. As it is now it is not run in and not setup perfectly (I would guess - unless I really lucked out). For me the critical issue - again I think at this stage - is the high tracking weight of 2.5 grams. In the nature of my linear arm this is perfect - allowing me to play some very dodgy vinyl indeed. I think I just saved myself the hassle of a second arm - although there are a few arms out there I would love to play with as a back up, not the least of which is the Schroeder DPS arm - which is a perfect match for a certain ZYX cartridge someone somewhere around here has just acquired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Mark, I think they cost a bit more in the US than $130 but I do not know for sure. Shouldnt be too punative whatever the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Are you using a 100 ohm load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 47 Kohms - but I will try it on 100 later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 ---------------- On 8/2/2005 7:35:04 AM mdeneen wrote: Interesting report Max. Thinking about it, for a $130 it's hard to find anything that's remotely musical, so this must be one heck of a unit. mdeneen ---------------- Mark, It is one heck of a unit. You'll be hard pressed to find one at a retailer in the US unless he imports them. I know that Denon USA does not bring them in any more because I've talked with them recently. Late last year, JNorv ordered a DL-304 from a dealer in England I believe. He likes it a lot. The DL-103's do show up on Audiogon if you keep your eyes open, and once in a while on eBay. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 http://www.audiocubes2.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I got my 304 from Origin LIve (http://www.moving-coil-cartridges.com/index.htm) but they don't seem to have them any more. However, these people claim to have the 103's (http://www.hifi-regler.de/shop/denon/denon_dl-103.php?SID=bc5b5e561146bb39d657dde02979bec3#). I have no complaints with my 304. It is a very low output (.2 mv) but my Rowland preamp has plenty of gain to drive it. I liked it so much that I bought a spare just in case. Of course, I felt the same about the Ortofon X5-MC but wound up trading one of them to Fini for his busted Black Widow. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Couple of updates: 1. If anyone wants a 103 and cant find it let me know as I can source them here in about 2 weeks. Assume 130 Euros plus shipping for now - but I may be able to get better pricing still. Antonis sold me mine at cost as I have put a fair amount of turnover through him this year - but I am not sure he can keep doing this. 2. Tony came round. We listened at 100 ohms and at 47 Kohms. 47 K wins. Might try 1000 ohms as an alternative. Of course we are still running in (about 6 hours on the cart so far) and things might change. AS an aside there is a Denon called, I think, the S1 that Edmond was keen on. We cant get them over here. Anyone got any idea of price in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 The 100R load restricts dynamics too much, 1K should be better, I use 390R. Watch the VTA, err on the high side if not sure. Try reversing absolute polarity, E as 'hot' sounded better to me than 'E' as ground. Be careful with a stylus cleaning brush, especially the one from Discwasher. The cover over the coils will wear off and then magnetic garbage can get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Max - Check the website I attached above. It is a Japanese site, I believe, but the prices are in US Dollars. My 103 made ot to my door from them for under $150.00 U.S., I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Ooopps! That site has the 103 for $199.00 now. Still not a bad deal!! They have a fairly complete line of Denon including the 103 R for a bit over $200.00 and the S1 for 689.00: S1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 There's a brand new DL-S1 on audiogon. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1126977779 The know this seller and he's a great guy. IMO, it's one of the best cartridges that can be bought for reasonable money and is far better than the 103. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Max, I'm glad to hear the results are good! Talk about a great value cart! I had a 103 (don't remember the model) about 2 years ago but sold it to Jazman when I got my Temper or Benz, can't remember that either I paid about $100 for a really nice used one and it sounded great. Incredible bargain and as Guy and others have pointed out, they can be found used in the US. If you're not sure about using a LOMC in your setup, it's a very inexpensive way to get you feet wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Just had a peek at the specs of the S1. 0.15 mV output!!! Christ that's low - I dont think my phono stage would drive that with 65 dB gain available. Also, just for reference as it only applies to me - the main appeal of the 103 is the high tracking weight - which is not shared with the S1. On the bright side - at least I know what I am looking for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ---------------- On 8/3/2005 11:44:54 AM maxg wrote: On the bright side - at least I know what I am looking for.... ---------------- Are you sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I had Jazman's Denon 103D here for a few weeks. For the money it's a really nice cart, highly recommended. It's super smooth and great with jazz and vocals. Wonderful midrange. Have not heard the 103 non-D version so don't know how it compares. No Disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 My preamp claims 60 Db of phono gain. My 304's output is .2 mv. I have plenty of gain thru my Altec horn system to drive my wife, next door, up the wall. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 Jnorv, Now that is impressive. I knew of the 304's low output and had assumed that my 65 dB gain phono would not be sufficient - seems I was wrong, but even so the tracking weight of that one is also too low for my arm I think. As it happens I switched from 47 KOhms down to 1000 ohms and that seems to be the ideal setting. Funnily enough this is a setting I never tried on the Shelter - maybe I will switch back and try it one day - but I would sure miss this tracking ability. Right now I am planning to give the 103 a long run in the system - essentially to ensure it has run in properly but also simply to enjoy being able to dump a record on the TT and not worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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