OT-Dietary Supplements

[updawg]

Alright I started taking ephedra free stacker 2's, and all seems to be going well although I seem to be having like lack of focus, and I got a twich in my eyelid (could be completely unrelated, I had a banana mixed into my breakfast shake to help stop it.. seems fine now). I nor my family has any real health related issues, I'm just trying to help drop that college weight I packed on the last year. I'm currently trying to become more active (I was a wrestler/football player in high school) and am runnning two miles atleast three times a week. Anyone have any experience with them or related dietary supplements. I'm dropping weight rather quickly, I know the ins and out being a former high school wrestler and all I just want to hear your experiences and if I should be concerned with these two side effects I had.

[meuge]

One word of advice about weight loss medication: STOP

Unless you're doing it as part of a regimen that you've discussed with your doctor, chances are you're doing your body a great disservice.

[updawg]

I'm not sure if your aware of Stacker 2's but this is all it contains.

Amount Per Serving <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Proprietary Blend 198mg*

Kola Nut (seeds)(3mg caffeine group alkaloids), Yerba Mate (leaves), Cassia Mimosoides Extract (leaves/stems/pods), White Willow Bark

Caffeine (anhydrous) 200mg*

Tri-GuggLyptoid3 Complex 25mg*

Green Tea (leaves)(< 1 mg caffeine group alkaloids), Guggulsterone (whole plant), Gymnema (Leaves)

* Daily value not established

Other Ingredients: Dextrose, Gelatin, Stearic Acid, Magnesium Stearate, Titanium Dioxide, FD&C Yellow #5, FD&C Blue #1, FD&C Red #3, FD&C Yellow #6

Nothing out of the ordinary, I just want some feedback from people who have taken them or similar products.

[meuge]

There are three types of weight loss supplements:

1. Placebo (no matter what they write, most of the contents are usually dextrose with some vitamins)

2. Speed (in various iterations and strengths... from simple caffeine all the way to hard amphetamines)

3. Hormonal (like all the anti-cortisol drugs)

In short, 1 is benign, and won't make you lose weight. 2 will make you lose weight but not without side effects, that usually manifest themselves as alterations of mental state, restlessness, night sweats... and a variety of others. 3 will also make you lose weight, aggressively, and it's likely to severely alter your endocrine system... not in a good way.

Yours seems to be a combination of 1 and 2. Depending on your caffeine tolerance and on how many times a day you take it, it may have no effect... or it may give you problems. 200mg is a middle-of-the-road dose - too high for someone who doesn't drink coffee, and pretty much irrelevant for someone who drinks a couple of large coffees before lunch.

[dragonfyr]

Are the ingredients not supposed to display!?

I have no idea what they in fact are, but let me take a guess:

caffiene

guarana

ma huang

and any number of additional alkaloids (or other sources of caffiene) - all cheap speed variants and diuretics...(note: as are ephedra and cocaine...) I mean, if you want speed, complain that SKF's (& the rest of the pharmaceuticcal industry) production was limited 25 years ago by additional Congressional stimulant regulation, and get a variant that works!

ECGC (drink real green tea, hot or iced with lots of lemon to cover the bitter taste, if you desire the many benefits of green tea!)**

And let's not forget mediocre vitamin supplimentation to make it sound oh so nutritional!

You don't need this stuff!

Here's an idea that will confuse many: Portion control and more exercise/Eat less, move more! And eat foods lower on the glycemic index to help control /level out blood sugar levels and the resultant release of insulin...

** And for some genuinely terrific herb prices, check out San Francisco Herb Company! ( Just be aware of the minimum order! Their gunpowder green tea is best and cheapest for the pharmacological effects, and MUCH cheaper then buying the puny boxs of 25 tea bags!)

http://www.sfherb.com/default.asp

EDIT:

Oh, so NOW the ingredients display after I post!!! (My guess is that you experienced another of this site's many poor editing features!!!) Well, my guess wasn't too far off!

And now the FDA is after Cortislim as being phony!!!

[updawg]

Yeah I guess, but I was just wondering muege since your in a md program will this be harmful in anyway? I know it's just mainly a caffine boost that I can find in a variety of tea's (yerba mate alone is so expensive), but if taken properly, even if its a psychological thing, will this be harmful?

[nicholtl]

Not to condone or bad-mouth these supplements either way, I'll just state what I know personally.

The best weight-loss supplement was Xenadrine RFA-1. However, it's now illegal, since it contains ephedrine.

The 2 ephedrine-free supplements I've had the greatest success with in the past (I no longer use them) were Zantrex-3, which will give you major mood-swings, and Man "Scorch." Whatever long-term effects they possess (if any), they worked like a charm.

However, I'd listen to Meuge. A proper diet, excercise, plenty of water, and adequate sleep are all the foremost factors. You could also consider taking EFA supplements (essential fatty acids, such as fish oil or flax seed oil), and a fiber supplement.

[updawg]

I'm not using these pills in replace of healthy dieting, but the actual suppresing of hunger is my biggest foe. Through high school when I wrestled I could control the urges not to eat. (image and pressure of being a team captain...are pretty strong forces) All these healthy eating habbits went out the window though come college. For the first time these pills as of now seem to be filling that hunger gap when I eat light (placebo effect or not). I'm doing a high protien low carb diet and so far all is going well and the weight is pretty much melting off. I would like to ween off these when the actual hunger urge subsides, so I was wondering if there was truely any health risks by taking these. As I mentioned earlier I had two side effects, one was losing focus the other was my eye twitch which can be related to caffine (mainly what these pills are).

[nicholtl]

Weird, I was a high school wrestling team captain too! Cutting weight is so, so bad... But, we all went through it.

Fiber helps you feel full. Try snacking on oats, almonds, or blueberries when you feel pangs of hunger. There's also celery, which has negative calories. That is, it takes more calories for your body to burn, than the celery actually puts in. You could also just slam some ice-water, since that'll fill you up quick, not to mention require your body to work overtime just to heat the water. Those are little "tricks" I've learned from years of weight-lifting.

[updawg]

Thanks for some of the tips, I drink plenty of ice cold water and I knew about the celery(although not one of my favorite vegitables). I wreslted 171 up until my senior year when I wrestled 189. I was just to big to wrestle 171 any more. Currently I weigh 210 and want to drop back down to about 190.

[SteelerFan]

I agree with meuge, just stop. I'm always in the single digits of fat and I've never touched any of that stuff. I eat 6 small meals a day and stay away from junk. It's a lifestyle for me, not a diet. Exercise is a VERY key element.

Every once in awhile I loosen up a little. For example, I just returned a couple of weeks back from 5 days in Las Vegas. While there I had 3 large meals a day. I mean all of the stuff I don't usually eat like: bacon, pancakes for brealfast, pizza for lunch and I'd hit the buffets like a homeless guy for dinner. Then later on in the evening I'd snack on ice cream or candy. I weighed 167 when I left and 169 upon my return, I didn't rent a car, I walked everywhere. I mean I walked and walked all over the strip and enjoyed every second. I wouldn't recommend one eats like that all the time but you can slip up here and there and as long as you get back to the right kind of lifestyle there isn't much harm done.

[johnyholiday]

oldtimers stack-smoke ciggs , drink espresso,take asprin,drop sudafed,hit the gym,the more things change, the more they stay the same,i wouldn't recommend old timers stack, or any new stack,70%-80% of your trainning will be in the kitchen-types of food-preperation of -frequency of.... an change your workouts often,to keep your muscles confused, they learn quickly,becoming more efficient, through optimizing the movement,than strenthing from the movement,an remember the advertisers of these products, an the manufactures of such products, have conflicts of interests,or are one in the same

[WMcD]

I wouldn't take any of this sort of stuff. Exercise, better eating is good of course.

A good starting point for any legit medication is The Physician's Desk Reference. Your local library will most likely have one. In many if not all cases you see long lists of side effects. Note this is the type of stuff which the FDA lets MD's give to you.

Whatever is at the health stores or in magazines or the Internet is less well documented.

The stuff from legit drug companies is produced under carefully controlled conditions with lots of QC. The supplements, who knows. Even if a manufacturer has a good shop, their suppliers may not.

Gil

[dragonfyr]

Oh, and as regards the ice and ice water stuff..wasn't that pushed by Darden or someone associated with the Bowflex stuff - I forget his exact name and association and it's not worth looking up, but I am sure someone will correct me!!!

But a calorie of heat and the a calorie in the food world are not equivalent! If ONLY it were that simple! That was one of the mythes that were debunked a while ago - 'bad math' and confusing terms!

Rather like the mistake encountered in the other thread regarding the velocity of current and the sizing wires! As electricity is not a force, and the flow of 'charge' involving electrons is not only rather slow, but the actual length of travel is small, while the EM field quantized unit is not the electron but the photon, and IT moves at or near the speed of light. There is a BIG difference between electron movement and EM fields! One reason for the change in terminology from the flow of electricity to the flow of 'charge'. Everyone totally confused??

And to mix things up still further, the speed of light is not a constant as so many were taught in your intro science courses. All quantum is probability, and the speed of light is distributed over a Gaussian distribution - a 'normal' or Bell curve - with some light moving slower and some faster, etc.. The peak - the largest 'group' is simply the value accepted as the 'speed of light'. So much for our selective attention. And so much for the nature of quantum electrodynamics. And the math is even more fun!

Ok, so much the the 25 cent foray in to the confusing world of ice and quantum!...

[updawg]

Well I decided to stop taking stacker 2's (I only bought a box of 20), I'm at work now though and really hungry. I already started eating my lunch at like 10:30.. All I have for lunch is a romain salad with a cut up grilled chicken filet with italian dressing. I just dip my fork in the dressing for the taste and then eat the salad that way (trick I learned in wrestling). That and a plout (the best fruit ever) it's a cross between a plum and an avicado. For dinner most likely I'll have pickle spears wrapped with cold cuts, and some hard cheese. This is pretty much my new eating lifestyle, that and I have a Herbalife shake for breakfast (13 carbs), along with my multivitamins through out the day. Now for you diet freaks is kitosis a bad thing or is it healthy to just burn off the carbs stored in your bodys fat? So far the weight is pretty much pouring off but of course I feel a bit sluggish... with little carbs who wouldn't?

[meuge]

----------------

On 8/9/2005 2:15:22 PM nicholtl wrote:

You could also just slam some ice-water, since that'll fill you up quick, not to mention require your body to work overtime just to heat the water.

----------------

Unfortunately the ice-water thing is a myth. You see, the Calorie that is used in description of food nutritional value is a physical kilocalorie (1000 calories). The definition of a calorie is that 1 calorie of heat will increase the temperature of 1g of water by 1C. If you drink a liter (1kg) of ice-cold (4C) water, you'll need to heat it to body temperature (37C). Thus you'll have to use up 1000*(37-4) calories, which is = 33000 calories or 33 kilocalories... a miniscule amount really.

[meuge]

Ok... firstly, ketosis is not a healthy condition. A low or no-carb diet should only be attempted under close medical supervision (biweekly visits, probably), because even under the best conditions, it still means you're starving. You WILL lose muscle mass... in the beginning anyway.

This kind of a diet does work to drop the weight... but only if you carefully control it.

Also, you have to realize, that everyone's metabolism is inherently different. Your genetic background may be such that you won't react favorably to eating few carbohydrates.

Also, you should probably have a doctor check your kidneys before attempting a long-term low-carb diet, as you will be stressing them, in order to get rid of all the acid and ketones you'll be accumulating in your blood.

[updawg]

Yeah Atkin's claims its healthy.. but I'm only doing this for short term to drop some fast weight before school, and I'm looking into the south beach diet once I get to school.

[nicholtl]

Dr. Atkins also died of a heart attack, I think.

[updawg]

yes he did, but it was claimed unrelated to his diet or something I believe.