Thorens alternatives

[dubai2000]

Allans TD 124 thread might have alerted people (again?) that there are quite a few second-hand TTs out there worth looking for.

Of course this Thorens/SME combo was a
beauty, but I believe one might also find really excellent performers
for less money. Yes, the TD 124 is a classic, but so is for
example the TD 150. This is actually the turntable the LP 12 is
based on. Those Thorens players can often be had for relatively modest
sums. People more experienced with it do not even laugh about the odd
looking TP13 tone arm.

Two
more classical Thorens are the TD 125/126. At a German vinyl forum a
former Thorens employee rated the built quality of those two players
quite highly though he stated that with the 126 one should try to
find the rarer Mk I/II/IV versions.

The TD 125 is my
latest toy. Its an Mk II which came with the original TP 16 arm. Again
this is meant to be quite good, but I simply like the looks and built
quality of SME arms. Hence I put a 3009 Improved on the player. This is
a classic combo and I think its a deserved status. Another not too
unpleasant aspect is the fact that prices for such TTs have not really
gone insane yet.

Of
the more modern Thorens the best in terms of built quality seems to
be the TD520/1 especially as one can add a long SME arm (3012) [].

When
it comes to sound I should say that I really like both performers.
Running the Music Maker III as my main cart, I have noticed, however,
that the 3012 is slightly heavy. Using it now on the 125/3009 combo I
am again and again struck by how right everything sounds. Yes, the
table is a bit slimmer sounding than my 520 but that is the S-version
which uses a pretty heavy platter (5 Kg instead of 3Kg) but the
125 is neutral and quick in the best sense of those words. In a
sense it reminds me of Transcendent Sound gear: it has the uncanny
ability to get completely out of the way. There is just airy music and
nothing else. The question of equipment becomes really secondary and
that strikes me as being high praise indeed.

Obviously
I am not claiming that there might not be other TTs which are equally
satisfying, but what intrigues me about those elderly Thorens is the
fact that they are reliable and still affordable. Plus, even a newbie
will find enough online info on how to set up/tweak those players to
enjoy the sound of LPs.

BTW: my only 'mods' are more substantial bottom boards for both players.

Wolfram

[Duke Spinner]

even More affordable ...AR-Xa

[Allan Songer]

You can't really compare the TD-124 with any of the later Thorens tables--its an apples/oranges thing. Look at the Garrard 301/401 and EMT tables.

[sunnysal]

is the 124 the apple or the orange? LOL

I would add the early empire TTs and the scott 710 to the list with EMT, Garrard 301/401 and the 124...tony

btw I also like the rek-o-kut l-34 rondine jr. that my dad has stashed away, many of my childhood memories of music were on that TT...

[dubai2000]

No doubt, the 124 is a very

special TT, but IMO that does not mean that all later Thorens are

automatically inferior. After all the company continued to expand and

built some fine models even after they stopped producing the 124.

Wolfram

[Allan Songer]

I coudln't agree with you more. The TD-125 represents perhaps THE best bargain in vintage turntables.

All I was saying is that the design of the TD124 is radically different from the family of table that followed it.

[Guy Landau]

I coudln't agree with you more. The TD-125 represents perhaps THE best bargain in vintage turntables.

.

and so are the 150 and 160.

Great post, Wolfram.

[whell]

And for those of us whose needs fall somewhere in between building a system they can afford, and having a system that pushes the limits on quality sound reproduction, my little TD-145 that I picked up for $200, and included a good condition Shure V15-III, has been a happy little over-achiever for me. Its all stock, with the TD-16 tomearm. The only thing I've done is add a little damping to the base.

[pauln]

Am I missing out?

I'm playing my 1976 Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1900 with the MMC4000 through Wright preamp/phono EQ and Wright SET monoblocks into new LaScalas with AL-4. I guess the B&O is the weak link in the system now but it has performed perfectly for almost 30 years and I like it very much.

I would like to know what forum folks think of B&O, especially the simple ones like the 1900. That black base 124 would look nice with the black amps and black LaScalas, but what might I expect in musical improvement with a better table?? How good is the B&O performance and at what level of investment do I surpass it with another table?

I'm 100% vinyl listening seriously to mostly classical and '68-'78 period music. Based on my other gear, any recommendations for upgrading my turntable?

Thanks all,

Paul

[Duke Spinner]

wel, for one ...

your limited in your choice of cartridge

[dubai2000]

Thanks everybody for contributing.

Allan - we agree indeed [].

Paul,

I wish I could comment on your B&O but I have never listened to any of their TTs.

But I'd always look for a unit that allows proper arm adjustment - after

all this is essential for really getting the most out of your cart/LPs[Y]! An

acquaintance of mine used to have a Rega table with the stock arm. His

problem: no VTA adjustment (and he didn't feel like buying one of those

VTA on the fly adjustment tools). Instead he got himself.......yes, a

125....[].

One more thought: for many years I used the 520 without bottom. This

seemed to be produce a cleaner sound than the stock condition. Now this

clarity (which translates to more spatial details - letting you kind of

walk into the soundstage) improved once I added a 20mm wooden board. So

sometimes it's even these tiny changes which can cause differences in

sound.

Perhaps you consider getting a well reputed second hand TT/arm combo.

If you notice an improvement.....if not, your financial loss might not

be too much.

Wolfram

[JSharp]

I coudln't agree

with you more. The TD-125 represents perhaps THE best bargain in

vintage turntables.

.

and so are the 150 and 160.

Great post, Wolfram.

I had a TD-160C back in the 70's. It was to use a common phrase, a

total POS. A high mass arm that was finicky about cartridge

choice and with headshell contacts that were only good for a few

extractions and reinsertions. And the suspension system was totally

ineffective. Better look into home with concrete floors if you buy one.

I can't imagine one with 30 years of aging and wear being better. My advice on that model. Run far and fast from them...

[gilbodavid]

Hi all. My first post on this forum. Nice forum! Am heading Klipsch way, as soon as i can get room. I suggest Goldring Lenco L75/78. See "building high end tt at home despot for $200" thread by jean antais at audiogon. longest thread in audiogon history! Jean's doing up a stunning Garrard 301 grease bearing at the moment, and his first impressions of it compared to the Lenco are that they are pretty equal in performance. I've owned a Thorens td160 with sme3009 arm and it sang nicely. Hi FI World in England ( my homeland) on their website say the td150 and td160 outperform the Michell Gyrodeck ($2000), and the Garrard 301 outperforms the Michell Orbe ($4000) in pretty much every way. These old decks are my way in to the high end, and i havent looked anywhere else.

[gilbodavid]

Here's the link to the Lenco thread on Audiogon

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1075644493&read&3&4&

hope this works!

[JSharp]

Hi all. My first post on this forum. Nice

forum! Am heading Klipsch way, as soon as i can get room. I suggest

Goldring Lenco L75/78. See "building high end tt at home despot for

$200" thread by jean antais at audiogon. longest thread in audiogon

history! Jean's doing up a stunning Garrard 301 grease bearing at the

moment, and his first impressions of it compared to the Lenco

are that they are pretty equal in performance. I've owned a

Thorens td160 with sme3009 arm and it sang nicely. Hi FI World in

England ( my homeland) on their website say the td150 and td160

outperform the Michell Gyrodeck ($2000), and the Garrard 301

outperforms the Michell Orbe ($4000) in pretty much every way.

These old decks are my way in to the high end, and i havent looked

anywhere else.

I would guess the SME arm made a huge difference on your TD160. The included arm on my 160C was horrible...