dubai2000 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Allans TD 124 thread might have alerted people (again?) that there are quite a few second-hand TTs out there worth looking for. Of course this Thorens/SME combo was abeauty, but I believe one might also find really excellent performersfor less money. Yes, the TD 124 is a classic, but so is forexample the TD 150. This is actually the turntable the LP 12 isbased on. Those Thorens players can often be had for relatively modestsums. People more experienced with it do not even laugh about the oddlooking TP13 tone arm. Twomore classical Thorens are the TD 125/126. At a German vinyl forum aformer Thorens employee rated the built quality of those two playersquite highly though he stated that with the 126 one should try tofind the rarer Mk I/II/IV versions. The TD 125 is mylatest toy. Its an Mk II which came with the original TP 16 arm. Againthis is meant to be quite good, but I simply like the looks and builtquality of SME arms. Hence I put a 3009 Improved on the player. This isa classic combo and I think its a deserved status. Another not toounpleasant aspect is the fact that prices for such TTs have not reallygone insane yet. Ofthe more modern Thorens the best in terms of built quality seems tobe the TD520/1 especially as one can add a long SME arm (3012) []. Whenit comes to sound I should say that I really like both performers.Running the Music Maker III as my main cart, I have noticed, however,that the 3012 is slightly heavy. Using it now on the 125/3009 combo Iam again and again struck by how right everything sounds. Yes, thetable is a bit slimmer sounding than my 520 but that is the S-versionwhich uses a pretty heavy platter (5 Kg instead of 3Kg) but the125 is neutral and quick in the best sense of those words. In asense it reminds me of Transcendent Sound gear: it has the uncannyability to get completely out of the way. There is just airy music andnothing else. The question of equipment becomes really secondary andthat strikes me as being high praise indeed. ObviouslyI am not claiming that there might not be other TTs which are equallysatisfying, but what intrigues me about those elderly Thorens is thefact that they are reliable and still affordable. Plus, even a newbiewill find enough online info on how to set up/tweak those players toenjoy the sound of LPs. BTW: my only 'mods' are more substantial bottom boards for both players. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 even More affordable ...AR-Xa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 You can't really compare the TD-124 with any of the later Thorens tables--its an apples/oranges thing. Look at the Garrard 301/401 and EMT tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 is the 124 the apple or the orange? LOL I would add the early empire TTs and the scott 710 to the list with EMT, Garrard 301/401 and the 124...tony btw I also like the rek-o-kut l-34 rondine jr. that my dad has stashed away, many of my childhood memories of music were on that TT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 No doubt, the 124 is a very special TT, but IMO that does not mean that all later Thorens are automatically inferior. After all the company continued to expand and built some fine models even after they stopped producing the 124. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I coudln't agree with you more. The TD-125 represents perhaps THE best bargain in vintage turntables. All I was saying is that the design of the TD124 is radically different from the family of table that followed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I coudln't agree with you more. The TD-125 represents perhaps THE best bargain in vintage turntables. . and so are the 150 and 160. Great post, Wolfram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 And for those of us whose needs fall somewhere in between building a system they can afford, and having a system that pushes the limits on quality sound reproduction, my little TD-145 that I picked up for $200, and included a good condition Shure V15-III, has been a happy little over-achiever for me. Its all stock, with the TD-16 tomearm. The only thing I've done is add a little damping to the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Am I missing out? I'm playing my 1976 Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1900 with the MMC4000 through Wright preamp/phono EQ and Wright SET monoblocks into new LaScalas with AL-4. I guess the B&O is the weak link in the system now but it has performed perfectly for almost 30 years and I like it very much. I would like to know what forum folks think of B&O, especially the simple ones like the 1900. That black base 124 would look nice with the black amps and black LaScalas, but what might I expect in musical improvement with a better table?? How good is the B&O performance and at what level of investment do I surpass it with another table? I'm 100% vinyl listening seriously to mostly classical and '68-'78 period music. Based on my other gear, any recommendations for upgrading my turntable? Thanks all, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 wel, for one ... your limited in your choice of cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 Thanks everybody for contributing. Allan - we agree indeed []. Paul, I wish I could comment on your B&O but I have never listened to any of their TTs. But I'd always look for a unit that allows proper arm adjustment - after all this is essential for really getting the most out of your cart/LPs[Y]! An acquaintance of mine used to have a Rega table with the stock arm. His problem: no VTA adjustment (and he didn't feel like buying one of those VTA on the fly adjustment tools). Instead he got himself.......yes, a 125....[]. One more thought: for many years I used the 520 without bottom. This seemed to be produce a cleaner sound than the stock condition. Now this clarity (which translates to more spatial details - letting you kind of walk into the soundstage) improved once I added a 20mm wooden board. So sometimes it's even these tiny changes which can cause differences in sound. Perhaps you consider getting a well reputed second hand TT/arm combo. If you notice an improvement.....if not, your financial loss might not be too much. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 I coudln't agree with you more. The TD-125 represents perhaps THE best bargain in vintage turntables. . and so are the 150 and 160. Great post, Wolfram. I had a TD-160C back in the 70's. It was to use a common phrase, a total POS. A high mass arm that was finicky about cartridge choice and with headshell contacts that were only good for a few extractions and reinsertions. And the suspension system was totally ineffective. Better look into home with concrete floors if you buy one. I can't imagine one with 30 years of aging and wear being better. My advice on that model. Run far and fast from them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbodavid Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Hi all. My first post on this forum. Nice forum! Am heading Klipsch way, as soon as i can get room. I suggest Goldring Lenco L75/78. See "building high end tt at home despot for $200" thread by jean antais at audiogon. longest thread in audiogon history! Jean's doing up a stunning Garrard 301 grease bearing at the moment, and his first impressions of it compared to the Lenco are that they are pretty equal in performance. I've owned a Thorens td160 with sme3009 arm and it sang nicely. Hi FI World in England ( my homeland) on their website say the td150 and td160 outperform the Michell Gyrodeck ($2000), and the Garrard 301 outperforms the Michell Orbe ($4000) in pretty much every way. These old decks are my way in to the high end, and i havent looked anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbodavid Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Here's the link to the Lenco thread on Audiogon http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1075644493&read&3&4& hope this works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Hi all. My first post on this forum. Nice forum! Am heading Klipsch way, as soon as i can get room. I suggest Goldring Lenco L75/78. See "building high end tt at home despot for $200" thread by jean antais at audiogon. longest thread in audiogon history! Jean's doing up a stunning Garrard 301 grease bearing at the moment, and his first impressions of it compared to the Lenco are that they are pretty equal in performance. I've owned a Thorens td160 with sme3009 arm and it sang nicely. Hi FI World in England ( my homeland) on their website say the td150 and td160 outperform the Michell Gyrodeck ($2000), and the Garrard 301 outperforms the Michell Orbe ($4000) in pretty much every way. These old decks are my way in to the high end, and i havent looked anywhere else. I would guess the SME arm made a huge difference on your TD160. The included arm on my 160C was horrible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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