wstrickland1 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I'd think I'd like to have a 3-way center that will match my Legends. I feel I could be happier with that ilo the C7. I get the feeling that finding a single KLF 30 or 20 is a pipe dream. What's the chances of finding raw drivers and crossover? Is there a source for new parts? I could then build an enclosure. Where can the necessary parts be found? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 anyone know where to get the stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispykoilz Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Those are still fairly new, Klipsch would probably still stock the parts, have you tried asking your Klipsch dealer for prices? A KLF30 would make an awesome center in my opinion. It might be less expensive to look for a pair that perhaps isn't in the greatest of shape and make one from them. It looks like the KLF30 could accomodate having the mid and tweet turned sideways and centered between the woofs. You could probably just knock out the motorboard and install a custom made one and be able to use the same cabinet. The ports I'm not exactly sure but couldn't you move one to each end and just cover the remaining hole? Hey good luck on this, it sounds like a good project and having three KLF30's up front in your HT will be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I get the feeling that finding a single KLF 30 or 20 is a pipe dream. What's the chances of finding raw drivers and crossover? Is there a source for new parts? Unfortunately i think that is your best bet cost wise... maybe splitting a pair with someone else on here? Posting about it can only help your cause... Like already mentioned, the parts are all available, and Klipsch is pretty reasonable in the US on the pricing... give them a call at 1-800-KLIPCH and select the parts department. Otherwise there is eBay, but I doubt you'll find everything you need cheaper... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Krispy, I agree with you, a KLF-30 DOES make a great center channel speaker (see sig below)[] In fact your description looks something like this... Are you sure you haven't done this mod before? It's uncanny in that your description of changing the motorboard is dead-on! Wstrictland, Unfortunately, you may need patience...something few on this board have when they are ready to upgrade...[] The 30's don't come up on Ebay or audiogon much any more. I got mine from a forum member a little over a year ago, but that was just being in the right place at the right time. Put the word out occasionally here on this forum, watch Ebay and audiogon and your 30's will find you! Just my opinion, but your C7 center already has you 90% of the way to perfection. The C7's are no slouch. I have them as my surrounds now, but I started with 2 more 30's in the rear. It was great, but overkill for my 15 x 27x 9 room. Once you have a 30 made into a center you will hear a definate improvement, but don't let your imagination set your expectations too high. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your search! Edit: here's the pic...maybe I'll eventually get this new forum software figured out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InFlux Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I like the way you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 How about a KLF 20 center? would there be that much of a difference or would it be best to just go with a 30? A 20 would be moe bettah due to the size but if I'm going to do this I don't want to be kicking myself in the arse later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 A 20 will not be that much different from a 30 when used as a center channel. The voice (mid-horn and tweeter) are identical to the 30's. However a warning...if you are one those guys(like me []) that will wonder about "what if I had a 30?", you are better off eliminating the doubt and holding out for a 30. If a pair of 20's were to just drop into your lap (local pickup, good price, etc.) then go for those. You probably could not hear the difference, especially since the center channel primarily handles mid and high range frequencies. P.S. Looks like the forum is not accepting images unless you host them yourself. Earlier this afternoon it let me upload a pic of my center in my post above. The pic is gone and now I'm prompted for a URL. Anybody else seeing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Regarding the P.S. in my last post. I was able to add the pic back IF I used IE instead of Firefox. Too bad this forum is not more browser neutral. Oh well, it's still nice to have a place to share and learn. Price is right too! Thanks Amy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 Ok, let the games begin. I have coming to my door raw drivers and stock crossover for a KLF 20. Tweeter assembly, midrange and midrange horn and 2 woofers. Now I need an enclosure. A stock 20 enclosure is not going to work due to size. The box can only be 43 inches "wide" and 16" deep due to the fact that I will be putting under my TV in/on the stand. Now, I can make a box. It would be a strong box, very sturdy and free from rattles and buzzing. It would be built like a tank. It would work perfectly. It also would be ugly as all hell. Is there a source for generic speaker boxes built to custom size? Otherwise, Bruto will get to hacking on some 3/4" plywood. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I think I'm going to really like this center, even if my system will be comprised of crappy ole' Legends ;-) Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InFlux Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Ported speakers (in general) perform differently depending on the box proportions (Height vs. Depth vs. Width). Port placement, size, and shape also comes into play. You can find books on speaker building that provide rules of thumb for such decisions. You're best bet is to stay as close to the original box ratio as possible. I'm sure somebody can give you more specific details based on their experiences with this endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 My understanding of speaker cabinet design is that volume is the most important factor. The dimensions will be somewhat dictated by the size of the motorboard required to mount the 10" woofers. Keep your inside volume the same (with proper port sizes) and you should be fine. I would recommend a chat with forum member STL. He has a background in audio engineering and has done a couple of custom speaker cabinets with Klipsch drivers. Also look at 3/4" MDF instead of plywood. Klipsch used MDF on the Legend series (at least that is what's in mine) and I believe only uses plywood in the Heritage line now. Congrats on your bold decision. Keep us updated on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispykoilz Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Tried posting this morning but the forum wasn't working so I saved it in a rich text document to post later. Looks like we already got some action, way to go wstrickland1! redtop, hehe, no I've not done it before, I just looked at pictures of the 30's and 20's (in discontinued floorstand) and measured with my mouse pointer. The 20's look like it would be a really tight fit, I'm not sure if the magnets are bigger than the horn front. I have 3 pairs of Chorus II's, 3 in front and 3 in rear, so I know how much better matching speakers (especially the fronts) actually sound. I use Opera as my main browser so I didn't see any picture. I took a look with IE but it only shows up as a box with a red square in it. The properties are, file:///E:/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/KLF-C7/Horizontal%20Center.jpg. I'll have to check back another time to see if the pic is there, that's gotta be one awesome center!!! wstrickland1, Keep us posted on how things work out for you. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InFlux Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I would recommend doing some educational reading before you start cutting boards. For example - here is a simple to understand book that gives you the basics (I'm sure other forum members can recommend their favorites): http://cgi.ebay.com/Building-Speaker-Systems_W0QQitemZ4560510621QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Sealed enclosures tend to be tolerant of odd enclosure shapes - so yes, they are predominantly volume dependent. That is why car stereos often go this route - they can make the shape of the box fit the available area. Ported boxes need the correct volume in order to be tuned to the proper resonant frequency based upon the driver's characteristics as well. But in this case, the proportions of the box will also impact the propogation of the bass waves that are trying to escape the box - and this also ties into the port design. This is kind of like cavitation of fluids in pumps that impede flow (sorry for the geeky example). The driver size does tend to define the width of the box. The other two dimensions (depth and height) are typically a ratio based on the width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Krispy, I "think" I've got the pic of my center channel where it will stick to this thread. Just to be sure I'm attaching it to this post. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InFlux Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 That looks great. What a monster! So it looks like you did what was discussed above - replace the motor board and re-orient the speakers. Is that correct? Did you do anything differently with the ports? Did you leave them alone or move one in each corner (like what was mentioned a towards the top of this thread)? I have an extra pair of 20's in the closet, this just may be the inspiration I needed. Thanks for sharing your handywork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 I have an extra pair of 20's in the closet, this just may be the inspiration I needed. Thanks for sharing your handywork. ....an extra pair of 20's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but seriously, thanks for the help and support so far. I didn't think about the ports, I guess I can get them from Klipsch too. If I'm going to run the center small, would the ports (bass) matter that much? And what about the port positioning? Also, I've got 2 left hands, and I'm right handed so My box is gonna look like craP! Any suggestions on buying a box? Thanks, Billy Great Center you got there, btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Contact a cabinet maker near you . Have them make an enclosure the size you are looking for . Then make your own baffle board to fit your drivers . Don't port unless you know the math . Just My .02 . Willy P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Influx, I replaced the motor board with a new piece of 3/4" MDF and re-positioned the drivers. I left the ports where they were located on the back. If you needed to position a center closer than 5 inches to a back wall, then you may want to move them to the front. I had a thread (after the project was done) where this was discussed and the consensus was that it does not matter where the ports are located as long as the size is maintained. If I were doing it again, I would move them to the front, one at the extreme left and one at the extreme right of the motor board. That does offer the greatest flexibility for positioning the center channel. The hardest part was removing the old motor board. I found that after I removed the drivers, the best method was to gently tap a small pry bar (a flathead screwdriver would work as well) into the area where the motor board is attached to the cabinet. The motor board is just hot-glued to the cabinet, so you should be able to work it loose without destroying anything. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InFlux Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 ....an extra pair of 20's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but seriously, thanks for the help and support so far. I didn't think about the ports, I guess I can get them from Klipsch too. If I'm going to run the center small, would the ports (bass) matter that much? And what about the port positioning? Also, I've got 2 left hands, and I'm right handed so My box is gonna look like craP! Any suggestions on buying a box? I couldn't agree more - pay a cabinet maker to do it correctly. If you don't build the box properly you can get rattles or air leaks. My first couple of boxes needed a bit more caulking than usual... All you would have to do is give him the dimensions of the box, details on any bracing on the inside of the box, and how big/where the holes need to be. The cabinet maker may be able to give you some other options - like 1" MDF instead of 3/4. Similarly, they can easily put a wood veneer on the box for staining. Make sure you take into account the volume of the bracing (you want to brace this thing) and adjust your box volume accordingly. Make sure you are clear on INTERNAL or EXTERNAL dimensions (your calculations will be for the internal dimensions --- add the thickness of the material for outside dimensions...) I'll get off my soap box now... If the volume of the box is the same, copy the port size (internal diameter), port length, and port placement (I would suggest 1 in each corner - maybe redtop can chime in on how he did his????). -InFlux P.S. A friend has dibs on my spare 20's and a spare pair of 10's if I decide not to keep them --- sorry! P.S.S. Redtop read my mind ~ and he types faster than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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