Choy Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 Hi Guys, I m new here. Well,i have a pair of Welborne Labs Laurel IIX 300B and i need to look for a pair of speakers to match the amps.I am thinking of the RB5s as my listening room is only about 12'x12'x10'. Have you guys got any suggestions or opinion? Would love to hear from you guys,everyone of you! I listen mostly to Jazz and Rock,and sibilances always get me up to my nerves.Any recommendations accepted! Thanks guys! Choy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffgeorge Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 Choy, Although I am not familiar with your amplification, I feel the RB-5's are one of the best all-around speakers out there. They are excellent for any music, especially jazz. They are missing the lower octave that my RB-3's have, but they are in a smaller room, so the difference is negligable. I do recommend placing them on good stands. Mine are on 20" spiked stands. This gets the tweeter at ear level. I can't say enough good things about these speakers. An A+ in my book! ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 The RB-5's would be ideal for your 12*12*10 room,I used them with a Celeste 4150 for some time and the sound is great.No agresive highs,the sound is free from any edge that would distract or bring fatigue when I listen at high volume. The RB-5's should be even more relaxed with a tube amp,and the 300B tubes should be sweet sweet.Try the RB-5's,the only thing is the bass will not have the impact it has with solid state.Still overall I am quite sure you will like the RB-5's alot. The only owners of RB-5's who complain about agressive highs or edgy(agressive)sound are thos who use inexpensive(read Cheapo) recievers.Even inexpensive tube integrateds like the Jolida sound good with the RF series! I hope you like the match,I know I like the Klipsch R series and its the best from Klipsch so far(my opinion of course). TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 6, 2001 Share Posted October 6, 2001 Choosing a speaker after you have already selected the amp ¡K is like setting the cart before the horse. Usually tweaking audiophiles already have the cart they like in their audio rig, then they go find the horses to drive it. One reason for this is that speakers are the only bargain in audio. They are where you get the bang for your buck. Once audiophiles find the speaker with the voice they like, then they usually search for ways to get more out of the speakers. Perhaps we would end up with better systems sooner, if we did it your way and decided on our horses first. Nonetheless, one of the reasons why I have big old horns is because although they sometimes ride as harsh as a farmer's buckboard, they have never been the weakest link in my various system configurations for over 15 years. I am still improving on the horses and harnesses, but as far as the audio ride goes, these are the carts for me (new ALK crossovers to extend their longevity is the plan). You do have a few different choices of speaker designs for low powered tube amps: single driver Lowther styles, horn loaded or not, line driver arrays, various horn loaded designs and, of course, horns. All of these designs place an emphasis on the sensitivity of the speakers, making them not only easy to drive, but since their idling speed requires only several micro-watts from the amps, it also makes them ideally suited to the distortion characteristics of flea powered tubes. Therefore, the super-efficiency of the Klipsch RB5 bookshelf models is indeed a great match for tube amps, especially the well regarded Laurels in a small room. (How did the average size bedroom or home office in America become "small"?) Tube amps are notorious for their inaccuracy when driving the bass speaker (something to do with the impedance); which causes their uneven frequency response. Yes, even the new and improved IIX model. But this is something that patient audiophiles accept as yet another idiosyncrasy of running a team of glowing bottle amps. Compared to the flea power of the 2A3 tube, the more powerful 300B tubes will give you some of the "oomph" needed to drive the upper bass area. But if you have an SS powered sub-woofer, that will really help with the mid and low bass. A low cost $250 (US) sub might make a lot of difference for your system - but only because your room is small. If your system is ever going to be in a larger room, I would plan on a larger or more powerful sub now. The not so big, but older horns, that Klipsch and others, such as JBL and Altec Lansing, made years ago, are also very good choices because of their super high efficiency, low cost (especially when some one hates their size), dynamic range and clear mid-range. Look for used Klipsch Chorus, Heresy or other older and smaller horns of super-efficiency (d95 dB/w/m). (You did read the Laurel review with the Heresy speakers, didn't you? http://www.welbornelabs.com/pf_lreview.htm) Not that horns and tubes don't bring you a whole 'nother set of headaches, unlike the ones you find with solid state gear and cone speakers in the same price range. Dealers don't know about them and may steer you in the wrong direction. Room placement can be different. Ssssibilanccce can be a problem on the older horns, especially with CDs and bright rooms, though CD players and rooms can be dampened. Rock music can also be a problem. I don't know how loud you like to play your rock n' roll (you do play your rock loud, don't you?), but even super-efficient horns "peak out" early with flea powered tubes. Horns may require .03 watts or less to reproduce normal listening volumes at 73 dB at 3 meters away, but your 8 watt amps will run out of steam on fast musical peaks about 97 dB. That is still amazingly LOUD. I do not set my average volume level that high even when I listen 20' away from the house. But all of these considerations are secondary to the search for truth that brought you all the way to America. The truth is, horns love tubes! Jazz instruments, in particular, are especially well served by the combination. Grand pianos, bass and acoustic guitars, brass and woodwind instruments, drums and cymbals come alive with dynamic range, clarity and tonal accuracy. These important musical qualities are hard to match by most other types of systems in that price range. However, properly positioning the smaller horns on stands in the corners, but away from hard reflections, with a low or moderately priced sub in the middle, you should find a wonderful synergy with tube amps that makes music sing. You will either immediately love the sound as something that "just sounds right", or you will merely enjoy it, and continue to listen to music for years, with out your enjoyment withering away. Bottom line is that you have a very good engines in Wellbourne amps, you need to find an equally good ride. No matter what, you are in for quite an audio adventure. ------------------ horns & subs; lights out & tubes glowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 Colin makes some good points here and I would tend to agree with much of what he says in this post concerning tubes. I will say that a good 2A3 amp, to my ears, actually delievers better quality bass and a more clear midrange than the 300B brethren. Yes, the 300b is a more powerful tube, but the 2A3 seems to be less sluggish really (sluggish being a bit of an overstatement). Actually, the 3.5 watts of a well-designed SET with an excellent power supply has more power than you would imagine. Indeed, I actually think they are the semi-powerful of the low watt SET brigade, as the 45 and 10 tube designs come in much lower, thereby really demanding more from the speakers. I know he has experienced the Bottlehead Paramours via his Cornwalls, but this is a more cost effective example of a 2A3 amp with necessary price-point compromises. See Colin's interesting review at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/paramour-tube-amplifier-4-2001.html . I know my Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs have amazing low end extension, even through my ProAcs! Of course, we are not talking wall shaking bass, but in relation to pitch, definition, and a life like quality, you would be very surprised. Still, more challenging music will make it run out of steam at very high levels. One thing is for sure, you have many more options on the speaker front these days. I am not sure I would journey down the modern RB5 Klipsch path, however. The only Klipsch speakers I have heard in the last 20 years have BEEN the modern versions, and I was not really impressed. I am in the possible market for the older Cornwalls which I have yet to hear. I have attempted answers to your posts in several other forums and have actually never seen you respond to anyone's post. Perhaps you will jump back in to one of these exchanges (they are hopefully two way streets of give as well as take), to include some more details. What speakers have you tried so far? Remember, the preamp is of equal importance here. I vaguely remember you needing answers in this regard as well. What did you end up going with? As I recall, you were looking at the Bottlehead and AES offerings. khs> s y s t e m Linn LP-12/Linn Basic Plus/Sumiko Blue Point Rega Planet Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Creek OBH-12 Passive Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks DIYCable Wire - Various ProAc Mini Towers A l t e r n a t e s: EICO HF-81 ASUSA A-4 EL-34 UL EICO HFT-90 Tube FM Tuner Sumo Aurora Tuner Nakamichi CR-7as>f> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 10-07-2001 at 12:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choy Posted October 7, 2001 Author Share Posted October 7, 2001 Thanks guys.And thank you mobile homeless for reminding me that this forum thingy is interactive. Yea,basically,i m running now on my pair of B&Ws(DM303) which are rated 88db.Wonderful budget speakers for solid states.But the Laurels would have to work hard to push the speakers ,and speaker clipping is one of my concerns. But basically,i just want better sound from my system and want to fully utilize the 'wonderfullness' of the Laurels. I ve heard some horn speakers like Lowther and others which i dont know their names at a local hi-fi show.Just love the sound of those horns.But horns add colorations to the music that they reproduce dont they?and are particularly hard for me(a very immature newbie) to maintian or build a pair. I d definately love to build a pair of speakers myself ,but given my situation(i dont have access to good tools and a workshop and so on.) What other speakers would you guys recommend me other than the klipsch RB5?I myself dont wanna limit my options just to the speakers that i can get thru my local dealer. My room is relatively small(my bedroom actually)and i guess a pair of bookshelfs or maybe small floorstanders are acceptable .But yeas,high efficiency would be a must.I probably would dwell into the world of 2A3s or 45s in the future.But for now,just let me enjoy my new pair of Laurels. Would love to hear from you guys soon.recommend me good speakers at reasonable prices please. Thanks again guys. Choy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Too cool, Kelly found the Klipsch BB!My recommendation would be Heritage line speakers, and fully horn loaded (of course). If you don't have the room for Klipschorns (few do) then LaScalas is the next best thing. Cornwalls come in somewhere around the LS range, although I've never heard them. And as a PROUD owner of a pair of Laurels, I say, welcome to the family. These amps match my khorns like peanut butter does jelly.f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choy Posted October 8, 2001 Author Share Posted October 8, 2001 Thanks Randy,for the warm welcome,just cant wait to have the Laurels running. But really,i dont think i can accomodate those speakers in my room.They just wont have a place to sit.I d have to stick to bookshelfers for now.Arent there any good bookshelfers that would compliment the Laurels well enough?At least like marmalade with peanut butter? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Well no first hand experience but you should (if you haven't already) check out Welborne Labs recommended speaker page. There are a couple of bookshelf type speakers there. May be very pricey though. http://www.welbornelabs.com/recomendspeaks.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffgeorge Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Go with the RB-5's and be done with it. Your right deang, I meant RF-3's. ------------------ RF-3's : mains RC-3 : center RS-3's : surrounds KSW-12: subwoofer Receiver: Denon 2801 DVD: Panasonic DVD-A120 CD: Yamaha CDC-765 Cables: Tributaries Sat Receiver: Hughes Direct-TV DD5.1 ------------------------- Family room: RB-5's (Mahogony) Receiver: Denon AVR-2000 (2ch.) Amp: Onkyo M-5000 (2ch.) CD Player: Yamaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choy Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 They are really that good huh jeffgeorge? Well yea,i ll most probably go for the RB5s.I m an overseas student who ll be in Australia for the next five years anyway,and the bedroom is the only place where i ll be listening to my music.So wont really be worth it spending huge amount of money on speakers and then send them back to Malaysia at the end of my course.So you guys think that i ll be in hi-fi heaven with the Laurels and RB5?I m using the Foreplay as the pre-amp. My current speakers(which are 88db)are B&Ws.Should they be alright with the Laurels?I m no engi-student,but i believe the speakers will drain my tubes faster than normal rite? I ll try them with the Laurels and if they dont sound right,i ll go for the RB5s then. Thanks a lot guys,reply reply reply,would like to hear a lot more from you experts.Thanks Regards, Choy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Listen, do you actually have your B&W speakers right now? Have you attempted hooking them up? If so, hook the swine up and give it a go. It will not turn your tubes into putty; you just might not get the dynamics or volume you desire; but I can't stress enough how system dependent the SET predicament is. You never know HOW a given speaker will do until you hook them up! Indeed, many times, it is not mere sensitivity that is the answer, but more the benign impedance; if the speaker presents an easy load and does not dip too low in impedance, then your Laurels will do much better. Hell, I am currently running 2A3 Moondogs, at under half the power of your 300b amps, through a pair of ProAc Mini Towers, which are a very easy load, but come in under 90 dB. I am getting great sound. Frankly, you will get mostly Klipsch recommendations within this Klipsch board, which is understandable. That being said, I personally believe there are FAR better speakers out there than the modern Klipsch line. I know I risk flaming here but believe it to be true. You have many more alternatives depending on your choice of music. Some other speakers that would work well are the Triangle line from France. The come in various price points - remember, when you get a monitor, you will need GOOD stands. Sometimes, a lower price floor standing with a small footprint might be a better option. I know the ProAcs do VERY well with the power and qualities of a 300B tube. Surely, the ProAc line on a whole is a lot more natural and balanced, as well as musical, than the modern Klipsch contingent. Be careful about jumping into a product specific Forum and expecting totally unbiased advice. Of course, all the varying opinions are helpful in getting the whole picture. Also remember to take a look the system of those giving advice; many times you can get a direct look into the bias of the poster as well as the amount of experience and exposure to high quality products. I have not heard a mass market receiver that comes anywhere near offering excellent sound, even when hooked up to supremely efficient speakers; if anything, the quality of the amplification becomes even more paramount. A typical SS mid-fi offering, while flying high within the specs wars, is totally underclassed and surely not designed to offer the level of sound your Laurels are capable of. kh system one alternate components welborne labs 2A3 moondog monoblocks f>s>This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 10-11-2001 at 10:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Choy, Do yourself a favor and listen to a pair of Heresy's. They are an excellent speaker and can be had out on Ebay for $300-$600 (depending on condition). They have a realatively small footprint and can be mounted on the floor (if it comes with risers) or on a shelf. Here are the specs of the Heresy I ('57-'85) -- http://www.klipsch.com/products/productspecs.asp?id=87 Most people who have this speaker and are running them with tubes (maxg?), absolutely love them! I have been told however, you will want a subwoofer to cover the lower octave. Just another thought... Mike ------------------ Family Room ----------- Hitachi 43UWX10B HDTV (16:9) Denon AVR-4800 Acurus A200X3 Panasonic DVD-RP91K (Progressive Scan & DVD-Audio) Dual CS-5000 Turntable w/Shure V15V-MR DBX 3bx Series III Range Expander Klipsch Chorus (mains - Acurus Amp) Klipsch KLF-C7 (center - Acurus Amp) Klipsch Epic CF-2's (rears) Klipsch RS-3's (rear surrounds) SVS 20-39CS Sub w/Samson S700 Amp Monster HTS-3500 Line Conditioner Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box Monster M-500 Component Video cables Monster Datalink 100 Digital Coaxial cables Radio Shack Gold Series & AR for all other audio interconnects Bedroom ------- Mitsubishi 31" TV Yamaha M-4 Amp Yamaha C-4 Preamp Yamaha T-7 Tuner Teac DVD Player Dual CS-721 Turntable w/B&O MMC2 Looking for a pair of Heresy's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 nice site there, Mobile Moondog! ------------------ horns & subs; lights out & tubes glowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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