Soldering speaker wires in Forte??

[dstrachan]

I read over on the A Asylum that removing the clips and soldering the wires directly to the speakers improves the sound noticeably.

Anyone tried this?

Results??

Thanks

[Speedball]

Be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry careful doing that........I know, trust me.

[efzauner]

I do find one of the weak links is the rather flimsy quick connects between the crossover and the speaker, especially over time. If you have the back open I would certainly look at improving the connection. Soldering is a good way but be carefull not to damage the tinsel, or drop hot solder on the cone or rubber surrounds!

[PrestonTom]

Careful, careful, careful

If the contacts are corroded or lose, then by all means clean and secure them. If this is done then soldering will NOT improve the sound.

Good luck,

-Tom

[dstrachan]

Thanks guys!

It appears that caution is the order of the day and that there is no real upside to be achieved. I'll make sure all clips are tight and leave well enough alone.

Any other tweaks that have noticeable improvement?

I have done the cap update with auricaps and was very pleased with the improved smoothness.

I was thinking of the resistors in the X over or damping the baskets and horns. Any thoughts??

Thanks again,

Dave

[colterphoto1]

Be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry careful doing that........I know, trust me.

How do you mean SB?

M

[djk]

"If this is done then soldering will NOT improve the sound. "

Sorry, you are dead wrong!

It made a big difference, even on brand new units. Prior to about 1982 all Klipsch drivers had the wire soldered to them. While later on the lower priced models used the clips, the top three models (Klipschorn, Belle, LaScala) were always soldered.

Be careful, if you are not experienced with a soldering iron, don't even try this.

Instructions:

Mark everything as you take it apart, check both speakers to make sure they are wired the same.

Clean the 0.205 tabs on the speakers with a ScotchBrite pad.

Cut off the old ends, strip about 3/8" and tin. Bend into a hook and squash slightly so it will fit through the hole real easy. Hook it through the hole and squeeze it tight.

Use a 30~50 watt iron with a 1/8"~1/4" chisel tip. Clean the tip on a damp sponge (a real, not a plastic one, or use a damp real cotton cloth) and tin right before use.

Use fresh solder intended for electronic use. Get in quick with the iron, and then get out now. Only use enough solder to get everything 'wet'.

Make sure you have some strain relief on the wires while soldering. If you don't, and you spend too much time on them, the plastic the terminal is mounted in will melt and you will have to buy a replacement diaphragm.

[Speedball]

Be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry careful doing that........I know, trust me.

How do you mean SB?

M

I used one of those mini torches to do the heating and there was a major meltdown of everything. Since then I bought a very small soldering iron for tiny projects but still it seems like a sensitive thing to work with. Thats when I consulted with DeanG & Bob Crites to get my little disaster straightened out.....[:$]

[Erik Mandaville]

DJK:

I agree with cleaning with Scotchbrite, and it can be helpful to quickly and very lightly tin the solder lug on the voice coil first before connecting the leads and soldering the joint completely. In my experience, this will make for an even more rapidly and cleanly done joint, particularly with concern to tweeter terminals. Be careful about tightly crimping on the tweeter voice coil solder points -- it may be that very light pressure will help prevent unintended damage to that delicate connection -- voice coil wire can be very fine and delicate. It may be that simply inserting the newly stripped lead into the terminal and allowing gravity and friction to hold it in place and 'make' the mechanical connection, similar in respects to printed circuit board work, will be appropriate for tweeter connections. The terminals of the larger drivers are usually a little more robust and can withstand more manipulation without damage. If you tightly wrap or crimp tweeter leads, it can be very difficult to remove them later, if that needs to be done for some reason, without damaging the factory-made connections on the diaphragm.

I've always preferred solding speaker leads to drivers, but I have never been aware of large leaps concerning subsequently improved performance -- in my own experience. I knew someone who used to also like to solder tubes into their sockets for the same reason, although that's not something I would personally recommend as a 'good idea.' That approach is pretty drastic IMO.

Erik

PS: I personally think it best to NOT work with the terminals on the tweeter unless you're used to that kind of work.

[PrestonTom]

DJK,

There was a caveat on my comment that soldering would not improve the sound. The caveat was: if the contact is clean and not corroded and the contact was secure. Then there would be no improvement.

Under those conditions how will the electrons "know" if they are going through a soldered connection or not? The possibility of screwing something up with a soldering gun is just too risky.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[BEC]

I can tell you for certain that this K-77M did not sound better after the guy soldered the wire to it. I could show a few dozen others that have been sent to me to try to fix after the solder attempt.

Bob Crites

[dstrachan]

For now, I think I will remove the clips and check all for integrity and tightness. Then I will scotchbrite the tabs on each speaker to clean them and hook the wires back up.

I upgraded the caps in the X-over with auricaps so I am familiar with marking the wires for correct replacement. I also have the instructions form Klipsch on which wire goes to which terminal so worse case scenario I will pull the tweeter and mid horns and get it right.

ON another note...Al Klappenberger, while not providing upgrades to the Forte, has suggested it would be worthwhile on a 20 year old speaker to replace the inductors in the tweeter filter.

Has any of you done this? Improvement?? What to replace it with? Any instructions/pics on the X over so I can make sure I identify the correct part?

Thanks,

Dave.

[djk]

"There was a caveat on my comment that soldering would not improve the sound. The caveat was: if the contact is clean and not corroded and the contact was secure. Then there would be no improvement. "

Well they weren't clean enough or tight enough when they were brand new, so how is 20 years going to improve anything?

"Under those conditions how will the electrons "know" if they are going through a soldered connection or not?"

I got news for you, things inside a speaker box vibrate.

"The possibility of screwing something up with a soldering gun is just too risky."

At the risk of repeating myself, "Be careful, if you are not experienced with a soldering iron, don't even try this."

"I can tell you for certain that this K-77M did not sound better after the guy soldered the wire to it. I could show a few dozen others that have been sent to me to try to fix after the solder attempt. "

Klipsch used to use the push-on lugs with 12ga Monster cable, and solder them to the K77M in the Klipschorn (from about 1978 forward). Maybe you should ask PWK about this.

At the risk of repeating myself, "Be careful, if you are not experienced with a soldering iron, don't even try this."

"If you tightly wrap or crimp tweeter leads, it can be very difficult to remove them later, if that needs to be done for some reason, without damaging the factory-made connections on the diaphragm."

I cut them if that need comes up, you only loose about 3/8" of wire.

"I knew someone who used to also like to solder tubes into their sockets for the same reason, although that's not something I would personally recommend as a 'good idea.' That approach is pretty drastic IMO"

I can see why he would want to do it, but I agree with you. Most leads are steel, and very difficult to solder, and it will be big trouble to replace the tube when needed (no tube rolling either).

The old Klipsch method of soldering 16ga wire to the drivers and using soldered on spades at the network was far better IMO.