Replacing K-400 with 511Bs in La Scalas

[Dirk Diggler]

Who has done this modification. I am considering either installing in the existing cabinets or doing some serious cutting and making custom top bins for the 511B and K-77.

Also, has anyone tried running the LS/511Bs as a two-way? I don't think this would be a great combo with the K-55 due to its high frequency limitations, but may work with an altec or jbl driver. Also, would you mount the tweeter vertically if keeping as a 3-way?

If anyone has any pics or info on this project, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[sfogg]

Check out this thread....

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/420131/ShowPost.aspx

Shawn

[Dirk Diggler]

Thanks for the info Shawn. Nice instructions. I think I am ready to start cutting. I think I am going to try them as 3-ways first mounting the K-77 on top of the cabinet and may try to pick up a pair of drivers to run as two-ways. Any other drivers that you would recommend?

How did they turn out in your theatre?

Thanks for the great info.

[tofu]

im trying to think of a way to mount the k77 ontop without it looking funny.

i think a little box for it would look silly. perhaps a full sized 2x2 top would be okay. if you veneer or paint over it, it'll just look like one whole piece.

edit: personally, i'd want to stick with a three way setup utilizing the k55 for two reasons,

1) i don't want to deviate from the original klipsch sound completely

2) i'm not sure how i'd go about changing ALK networks to two way anyway

[sfogg]

"I think I am going to try them as 3-ways first mounting the K-77 on

top of the cabinet and may try to pick up a pair of drivers to run as

two-ways. "

Go three way first. Are you currently using the 511s or will this be your first experiment with them?

I ran mine with the 511Bs simply sitting on top of the LaScala's for

awhile before cutting them to mount them internally. You might want to

do that first just to be sure before taking the saw to the LaScala. If

you haven't heard the 511B yet I think you are in for a treat when you

use that in place of the K400.

What crossover are you running? When you put the K55 on the 511B you might want to adjust its relative level somewhat.

The Altec 902s have the extension for two way operation. They had more

HF extension then the K77 in my testing. The dispersion is different

though so that changes the perception somewhat depending upon your

location and how live your room is. You can run the Altec with the K77

if you really wanted to but only if you are using a crossover that is a

bandpass on the squawker. Otherwise the system will be very bright. I

ran as a three way with the Altec + K77 with ALK Type 'A's for a little

while but it always seemed to me to be wasting some of the capabilities

of the Altec and I strongly preferred the two way operation with the

ES600 networks.

"How did they turn out in your theatre?"

They sounded very good down there. My only complaint would have been

related to dispersion. Because I have basically two different listening

heights (3 seats in one row, 4 in the second row) depending upon where

you were sitting and that the seats are relatively close the sound

changed somewhat from the speakers. For example if you were sitting on

the far left side the right speaker sounded somewhat different then the

speaker directly in front of you. (Right speaker) It wasn't a huge

difference but I noticed it from time to time. A longer throw (smaller

angle between speakers/listeners) would have solved this but I don't

have the depth in the room. For a traditional two channel sweet spot

setup the above would likely not be an issue at all. In my old room

(with a longer throw, narrower listening angle) I hadn't noticed this

coverage change in sound.

Because I tend to be a little insane and was curious I tried out the

large format Altec horn/drivers a little bit ago. I liked what they did

in the mids but they were a little to dark for me up top run as two

way. Since I had JBL 2404H tweeters already sitting on a shelf I

decided to try that setup three way tri-amped with crossovers that also

offered EQ and time delay to align the drivers. The crossovers let me

keep a very high slope crossover between the woofer and mid and also

implement a high slope crossover between the mid and tweeters.

I detailed some of that here:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/625446/ShowPost.aspx

The multi-cellular horn gives me more even coverage over its bandwidth

and the JBL handles the top end nicely again with good coverage so that

the sound is very consistent seat to seat. One additional neat trick

with the multi-cellulars is you can adjust their coverage to your

needs. My outer horns have the cells near the walls filled to cut down

on reflections from the side wall. The multi-cellular doesn't look

nearly as well integrated with the LaScala as the 511B did though. In

my case my front stage is covered with black acoustically transparent

cloth anyway so looks aren't an issue.

Hope this helps,

Shawn

[Dirk Diggler]

Shawn,

Thanks for the info. I think that I will try the 511Bs on top first to make sure that I like them. I will also be using Dean's AA networks. I may try an ES crossover down the road. I have another pair of La Scalas that I am not going to alter that I can use either crossover with.

[Duke Spinner]

902 .......[Y]

[tofu]

you know what... all this 511b talk recently has convinced me.

i'll buy the next sanely priced pair i come across. there's a good looking pair on ebay now, but the corner chip by the screw hole turned me off.

[J.4knee]

I am running 511b/K55M with prototype tweeters on my Main L/R La Scala's in my HT. Right now I am just running them on top of my La Scala cabinets. My seating position is more of a near field set up and I don't notice any dispersion problems or perceived sonic differences because of the dispersion patterns. I also use ALK universal A networks. I have my center split La Scala down for a refurb at the moment and am running a Heresy II for a center. Timbre wise the match is good but when the system lights up the La Scalas w/ 511s sonically dwarf the Heresy II center much more so than when I ran the K 400. The 511b horn is so much more open and detailed and your sound stage is noticeably wider. In my HT setting the La Scala mains blend out to the Heresy surrounds much better and you seem to get a better feeling of disbursed sound throughout the room as surround pans seem to be more connected/seamless than before (and I thought they were pretty darned good before with the K400s). In 2-channel mode they make an incredible difference in the soundstage and sonic image presented. I notice the mid to bass transition is much cleaner and better defined as well. I have a third 511b that will be mated to my split La Scala center when it is done. Yeah the 511bs are definite keepers.

[Dirk Diggler]

It sounds like we will have similar setups once I am done modding my 3 LS. I am definitely going to try the 511B before I alter the cabinets.

If I find the same improvements that others on the forum have, I will make custom top sections for the mid/tweeter section. I work in the furniture industry and have access to some skilled woodworkers. I can't decide whether to mount the tweeter on top of the mid horn as in the current LS setup or to mount the tweeter vertically in a slightly wider top section. I am leaning towards the latter due the height of the center speaker.

Also, what is a split La Scala?

[sfogg]

" and I don't notice any dispersion problems or perceived sonic differences because of the dispersion patterns. "

The dispersion of the 511s collapses as you get up higher in frequency. You

are running three way which is avoiding that since you are crossing to

a tweeter. Two way if you are on axis it isn't much of an issue. But if

you have a wider seating area it could be.

Shawn

[tofu]

ah, nice. some just popped up on ebay. seems to be in perfect physical condition aside from the scratches, but i can always spray the inside flat black.

i e-mailed the seller and asked for a "buy it now" price. may as well try...

[Dirk Diggler]

Where can you find adapters for a K-55 to a 511B?

Thanks.

[J.4knee]

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-322

[IB Slammin]

Where can you find adapters for a K-55 to a 511B?

Thanks.

The adapters are an inexpensive way to get your feet wet with the 511b. As per Shawn, Duke and me.........Try the 902 driver crossed at 500, 600, or 400hz. After running them crossed at 400hz, I believe that the specs from Altec were based on pro use and abuse. The 902 will purr all day crossed 400hz , 110 to 120 db.@ 1 meter.

Terry

[IB Slammin]

" and I don't notice any dispersion problems or perceived sonic differences because of the dispersion patterns. "

The dispersion of the 511s collapses as you get up higher in frequency. You are running three way which is avoiding that since you are crossing to a tweeter. Two way if you are on axis it isn't much of an issue. But if you have a wider seating area it could be.

Shawn

I agree. In two channel with the 511b's breathing down your throat (13' away), dispersion is not a factor.[ip]

Terry

[tofu]

just scored a pair for $110 shipped!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5837771980&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

[Duke Spinner]

why not just replace the whole speaker ....????

with a "B" model Valencia ...........[]

[tofu]

just ordered the adapters too..

i hope these babies perform well

[Marvel]

Hey Duke,

What is the high freq. driver in the Model 19?

I'm looking at some 902s, which look pretty good to me. Since I don't

play that ear splitting stuff I think they should be able to handle it.

Bruce