Any experience with Klipsch Tangent?

[Daddy Dee]

I've been wondering about the history of Klipsch Tangent. I notice these were built in the era when Klipsch & Associates was still the name of the company.

Tangent sounds somewhat familiar as another brand name in electronics, but I'm not sure. Were there some Tangent CD players out there?

From time to time I see various models of K-T on Ebay and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them. What do they sound like. They all seem to be bookshelf to smaller floor standing speakers.

The Klipsch website specs for the Klipsch Tangent 100 go to 45 or 42 hz maybe... with a 8-in woofer.

Any help or comments appreciated.

[Marvel]

DD,

I was thinking (I could look on the klipsch site of course) that the

Tangent 400 used the same drivers as the Heresy, but is taller and has

ports, aka, the Heresy on steroids idea. Lower bass. Be easier to copy

that than to try and calculate a bigger Heresy box.

Bruce

[Jeff Matthews]

Years ago, my brother bought some floor-standing Tangents. I'd have rated them comparable maybe to a Pioneer HPM-100. Pretty decent, but no comparison to Heritage. Maybe comparable to Bose.

[Bill H.]

From the very Few comments that have appeared about Tangets- they almost seem to be

the dark sheep of the Klipsch history.

Most of the posts cearly state to find something else.........

Dee since you already have the Top of the Dream line Klipsch- this would be a Huge let down!

[DRBILL]

DD,

I have a pair back in the bedroom as L&R for the TV. I got them at a pawn shop for maybe $20. I wuz robbed. I bought them because of the Klipsch name on them. They were truly awful with a highly exaggerated, boomy bottom.

One story I heard was that they were engineered to be the right size and shape to be shipped to base exchanges and were a nightmare of aural compromise in order to fit. And I don't know if this is true.

I replaced a lot of parts. I used Heresy crossovers and Heresy mids, mounted outboard on top (not enough depth). I used the Tangent tweet and woofers. It sounds like a Heresy with adequate bass, although the bass isn't very smooth and booms on certain frequencies.

It is certainly good enough for the bedroom TV.

DRBILL

[DrWho]

I'm not sure how one can diss the entire Tangent lineup when the

Tangent 400 is essentially identical to the heresy. I don't care too

much for the RF-10, but that doesn't mean I will diss the entire

reference line up. Btw, it is interesting to note that the calculations

for porting a heresy end up being identical to the design of the

Tangent 400.

Discussions like this need to reference specific models and not the lineup in general.

[Daddy Dee]

Thanks all.

DrBill. Good story.

DrWho. That's interesting. I've been contemplating for years the possibility of a diy heresy on steroids project. The cabinet dimensions of the Tangent 400 make for a pleasing floor standing speaker.

What I'm wondering is about what you have calculated for an appropriate port.

Would it matter much if the port was achieved with dual twins or a single larger port?

[DrWho]

Actually a single larger port is better as you will get less port

compression at louder levels. However, the trick is in positioning the

port so that high frequencies from the rear wave of the woofer don't

make their way out through the port.

Let me know what kind of port you're interested in: flared port kit

from partsexpress? shelf port like the cornwall? simple unflared port?

I actually made a reversible ported heresy mod a while back where I

constructed a "seat" for the heresy where you take off the rear panel,

set the heresy in the seat and then put the rear panel back on the rear

of the seat. It worked pretty well except for the fact that I never got

around to damping the cabinet and I had the rear wave problem too. I

just never got around to fixing it.

[Daddy Dee]

DrWho,

I happen to have a pair of the 4" flared kits from PartsExpress from when I was getting a few parts together for the project.

I'm not locked in to that method though.

[formica]

I was thinking (I could look on the klipsch site of course) that the

Tangent 400 used the same drivers as the Heresy, but is taller and has

ports, aka, the Heresy on steroids idea. Lower bass.

That's my understanding as well... the T400 was basically a

ported Heresy II. They share the exact same components, but were

designed after the developement of T/S parameters. A bargin

heritage IMHO...

Obviously there were other Tangents too...

ROb

[Daddy Dee]

DrWho,

I notice there is another Tangent model, very similar, except with a passive radiator instead of ported.

What's your take on this as an option?

[DrWho]

So I calculate the internal volume of the tangent to be around 3.4 cubic feet.

With a K-22 E (heresy I woofer) you would need two 4" flared ports of length 8" (42Hz tuning)

With a K-24 K (heresy II woofer) you would need one 4" flared port of length 7" (31Hz tuning)

But you get almost identical slopes with either configuration.

Let me run some numbers to see if I can find a passive radiator that would work well too...

[Daddy Dee]

Thanks DrWho

[DrWho]

Ok, for a passive you could just get by with two of these:

http://yellow.mynethost.com/~bv126368/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=41&osCsid=c260c8a12aa0c9ab44d44267a471c3f7

Which will cost you $140

[colterphoto1]

Just checked out the spec sheet, it all looks good, in fact, looks like a ported Forte cabinet. What went wrong? You've got a K53 on a K701 (looks like) horn, K76 tweeter (what's that cheapo K77?) and the venerable K24 woofer. Pretty much a Heresy on Steroids. Why then was it off so much in sound and then the Forte came along with passive and blew it away?

It'd be interesting to note the dates when these were engineered.

Michael

[Daddy Dee]

DrWho,

Thanks for running those numbers.

That would be two PRs per speaker?

That does make the port option more attractive economically. What should be considered on placement in the cab to avoid the wave problem you mentioned.

Michael,

That is a most interesting question. I wonder if there is any diff in sound between this Tangent model and the Forte.

[colterphoto1]

If they are so close (Tangent 400 and Forte), then why is one the poor stepchild (as Who mentioned), and the other one of the finest designs for a mid-sized speaker that Klipsch has ever developed?

Whoever that 'G' guy was who did the math on the KG (Trey told me this not long ago) series really got the equations down pat for the PR designs. I'm guessing that the KG designs were handed up to the Forte/Chorus design handbook, no?

Michael

[formica]

Why then was it off so much in sound and

then the Forte came along with passive and blew it away?

The Forte I and Forte II pre-dates the Tangent 400 and Tangent

500. The Tangent actually uses Heresy parts rather than Forte

parts. BTW, the T500 is similar to the T400 but uses a PR.

I see they were both being sold by Klipsch in the early 90's... but the

Forte and Heresy had wood veneer vs plastic black finish on the

Tangents.

Perhaps some psychoacousitcs involved?

ROb

[colterphoto1]

Is it a case of Klipsch 'downward' engineering?

Cabinet materials went from real wood veneer to cheaper vinyl wrap. Saved cost of PR and engineered for ports. Is Tangent then kind of an early Synergy line?

Michael

[DrWho]

Ya, it's two of 'those' passive radiators per speaker. I'm sure there

is a single passive radiator somewhere that would work, but they all

cost somewhere between $50 and $100 per PR. I can do a little more

research if you're really interested in finding a PR design for it.

Also, I didn't mean to over stress the issue of the rear wave coming

back through the port. 90% of the time this can be corrected merely by

adding polyfill, or lining the walls with an absorbtive material. And

you'll want to do this anyway so as to reduce standing waves as well.

Btw, I'm with Rob in regards to the psychoacoustics...the plastic that

they're using on the motorboards has far superior acoustical qualities

to it and can also be lighter and thinner. The only reason speakers

aren't being made solely out of it is because people want wood

speakers, hopefully only because they find them aesthetically more

pleasing. However, I know of plenty of people that think wood is the

end all be all meterial for the best speaker cabinets. There have been

some major strides in the last couple 50 years in the field of

Materials Science (we can basically "build" materials now that have

whatever properties we want them to have). There is a good reason the

new premiere speakers are going to have a "plastic" motorboard (the

premiere lineup is going to be klipsch's no-cost concern speaker).

Btw, this isn't to say that wood is a bad material...it is most

certainly better than the "cheap plastic" alternatives. (trying to

emphasize that there is a difference between cheap and good plastic).