Tom Mobley Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 found these in an old AA post by a William H. Geiger. In particular, the Q's and no, I've seen no also called eff and up around 3-4% for some drivers. Also, the Vas at 343 L seems high. I remember seeing some numbers posted here but I can't find them now. Mfg: Klipsch Mdl: K-33-E/K-44-E Nomz: 4 Ohms Revc: 3.5 Ohms Levc: 1 mH SPLo: 92.3 SLPi: 91.13 SLPi: 91.71 @ Vg = 2V Qms: 8.5 Qes: 0.684 Qts: 0.633 no: 1.07% ni: 0.81% F0(Fs): 27.99 Hz Fi: 26.17 Hz BL: 9.77 Tm Sd: 0.089 M^2 Vas: 0.343 M^3 Xmax: 4.00 mm Cms: 305 uM/N Mms: 106 g Pmx: 100 W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Tom, those numbers are for the original K-33 before they made the change. The "modern" K-33 has a Fs of 34Hz. PART # K-33 RE OHMS 3.39 LE MH .96 FS HZ 34.46 QE .410 QM 7.39 QT .390 VAS LTRS 301.66 XMAX MM 8.20 BL TM 11.88 MMS GMS 78.59 CMS mm/N .2714 RMS NS/M 2.3037 SD SCM 889.59 EBP 84.4 EFF % 2.91 SPL dB 96.6 Wattage 150rms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 Thanks Dean. got any idea when that change was? is this the difference between the vaunted square magnet K-33 and the later round magnet version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 "...got any idea when that change was?" No, but I think BEC knows. "is this the difference between the vaunted square magnet K-33 and the later round magnet version?" Yes. Since the original Cornwall was designed with the square magnet version, it might be advantages to your DBB CornScala build to get four of Bob's new woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 thanks Dean. on the BEC woofers deal, the client has specified vintage square magnet woofers. I found a gorgeous pair on the bay, they rolled in last night. Things are like out of a time capsule. ebay vendor eap30 is is a terrific packer, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 BTW, you should have gotten email from me last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Tom, The round magnet K-33E came into use in 1985. Going to a round magnet was a good thing because the round magnet makes for a more efficient magnet structure. Just happens that they raised the resonate frequency at the same time. I don't know why they did that. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 Thanks Bob. did your shipment ever come in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Tom, The new woofers were scheduled to be manufactured on Dec, 7. I have not heard whether they have been shipped to me or not. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The Vas for these drivers is about "medium" for the period, but is quite large by todays standards. Works out to between 10.5 and 13 cu. feet. Many horn drivers of the recent past even double that (Altec 515 at 12.2 cu ft and SL WP1508 at 23 cu ft). Considering that the Khorn has a Vb of less than 3 cu. feet, that is indicative of the type of compression experienced by the driver when in the horn. Once under compression, the parameters of the drivers change drastically. Nobody really knows in what way, but D.B. Keele's horn T/S formulas can get one pretty close to predicting the behavior once in the horn, providing one knows the parameters of said horn. That being said, it is suprizing how far "off" the K33E is to the Khorn; it is not a T/S match at all! However, we can all agree that it works - the results of imperical testing. However, now that speaker manufacturers understand and can control the parameters that effect drivers, a T/S match to the horn itself can be better achieved without much problem. Perhaps some should consider that as a viable alternative, too. It is also of interest that the modern K33E is most efficient at 100 sq. inches of throat size (not the 39 sq. inch throat opening used in the Heritage horns, and not even the full 78 sq. in available). LF anullment would occur for the K33E at 9343 cu inches or about 5.25 cu ft, so the K33E is not frequency anulled (enhanced LF response at or below FS) at all in any of the Heritage horns. The Khorn has a fixed Fc of 40 Hz (tentatively 38Hz per the AES Jubilee paper but that is the only exact reference to the 38Hz Fc that I have seen in print, so I tend to discount it, being that there are many more 40Hz references published by Klipsch) so impedance below cutoff sky rockets upward. It is recommended that the impedance of the driver (highest at Fs) does not coincide with the horn's cutoff. In the old days, Fs below Fc was used (which I also adherred to). Nowdays, Fs above the horn Fc can be used (see SB article "Solving the Klipshorn Throat Riddle", Bruce Edgar, 1990) with LF anullment. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Tom, The round magnet K-33E came into use in 1985. Going to a round magnet was a good thing because the round magnet makes for a more efficient magnet structure. Just happens that they raised the resonate frequency at the same time. I don't know wSo hy they did that. Bob Crites So, when I'm revamping my Cornwalls, should I put square magnet 33's back where they came from, or put the older squares in the cabinets I intend to keep, or put the newer, more efficient roundies in the ones that I keep? Same story on Alnico vs M K77's I guess. Which ones are 'prime'? I hear advantages both ways? Here we go again.. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Dana, I'm ashamed and embarassed to say that I only understand about a 1/10 of what you just wrote.[:'(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Yeah, I should learn to summarize better. I'll try to sum it up now: The K33 past and present K33E are both proven performers in the Khorn but there are other drivers available that form a closer "mating" to the Khorn than either of those do - that is - if one wants to experiment with everything else (crossover and higher frequency drivers and horns). Switching from the K33 or E will require modifications to the Khorn itself (throat opening size) and will negate the current crossover at the very least. For those who are interested, however, once changing bass horn drivers, the rest will have to follow by necessity. The other approach is to stay with the Klipsch drivers, and in that case, I would certainly want to try out Bob's new drivers. Absolutely. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Yes, I now have woofers. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Bob, e-mail me with the price of those woofers please. And the Teac either went out today or will be shipped by me in the morning. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Here is one out of the box. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Bob, will you be able to verify and post the T-S numbers for those? Looks pretty good. You could just wire up the whole pallet and and serenade the neighbors.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Maybe if Klipsch let's you be a parts distributor you can let them be a BEC parts distributor. C'mon Gassel, have a heart. [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Tom, I have some of them. FS is 25.5, Re is 3.39, VAS is 302 liters, QM is 5.95, QE is 0.31, QT is 0.30. Sensitivity is about 95 db. Coil is 1 mH. Pmax is 150 watts. Xmax is 7.15 mm. Anyway, according the the engineer at Eminence, these things will perform exactly like the pre-1985 K-33Es that they made for Klipsch. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Yes, I now have woofers. Bob Crites I guess so, You are DA MAN Bob, If you've got time, could you mosey down to your K77 thread, I'm having a little trouble right off the bat. Thanks, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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