svs

[Professor.Ham.Slap]

Actually, I do know what it's like. I owned a 20-39 PC+ from SVS for

about two weeks before I sent it back. I did some auditioning but after

all the "good things" I heard about SVS I went ahead and ordered it. It

definitely wasn't for me. The amount of distortion coming from that

tube was noticeably bad. Since then I've collected three RSW-15's (for

multiple systems) over time and have never looked back. Frequency

response is not everything.

[CAS]

Actually, I do know what it's like. I owned a 20-39 PC+ from SVS for about two weeks before I sent it back. I did some auditioning but after all the "good things" I heard about SVS I went ahead and ordered it. It definitely wasn't for me. The amount of distortion coming from that tube was noticeably bad. Since then I've collected three RSW-15's (for multiple systems) over time and have never looked back. Frequency response is not everything.

Actually, this is a common statement. What usually turns out is it was something in your house rattling. No kidding. I though the same thing.

If you truly experienced audibly bad distortion then there was a problem with the sub.

I know I'm obviously the bad guy in the sub forum, but it's so funny that everyone touts true/flat frequency response in every other speaker category, but when it comes to subs since Klipsch doesn't make one capable of such under $4 grand then "it doesn't matter." Sounds like another speaker company we're familiar with.

I'm not loyal to any company, just want the goods delievered. And if I'm gonna pay $1500-$1800 for a sub it better sound better than the RSW-15 does. No hating at all. I've demo'd the thing in residential and commercial. Just not impressed with a peaky slam box.

[MrMcGoo]

Flat frequency response is not what Klipsch is about; Klipsch is about good

sound. Paradigm is about flat frequency response, but at the cost of

dynamics. Each brand has its proponents, but you will not find the flat

response folks here.

Flat frequency response is nearly impossible with any subwoofer due to

room response problems. Flat frequency response with SVS below 20 Hz

comes with the expense of high distortion. Most of the distortion cannot be

heard because it is so low. However, the harmonics of the distortion may

be audible when distortion is around 10%. SVS distortion can get that high,

depending on how the sub is tuned.

I do not understand the super low tuning thing. Output is lost and distortion

may increase and for what? Subsonic bass that cannot be heard. May be

that these folks would like to join the flat earth club.

My system is not big on subsonics, but it can shake the house down. I set

my RF-7s as small, but power them with 625 wpc (8 ohms). The RSW-15

has no trouble keeping up. At -30db on a calibrated system, Master and

Commander makes you think the wooden deck is about to hit you with

enough splinters to kill you.

The only reason to have subsonics on my system would be to listen to organ

music that goes down to 16 Hz. Even that music sounds good; it is a

visceral feeling that is hard to describe.

Bill

[Paul]

A brief look at the Klipsch numbers versus the SVS PB-10 ISD numbers reveals that the Klipsch sub is more conservatively rated at 1% distortion and plays 7 db louder at 30 Hz, a frequency that can be heard. The SVS never made it over 110 db versus the 117 for the Klipsch. Bigger drivers do matter.

Extension below 30 Hz and even 20 Hz is into the subsonic level for most humans. Most folks do not hear much below 30 Hz. At 30 Hz, most current Klipsch subs kick like a mule and do well with both movies and music.

Bill

I thought it was just 2 channel people who still say they don't use <30Hz. Think of it this way Bill. If my sub is an instrument that is used for everything below 80Hz and I don't think I need anything below 30Hz, I'm robbing myself of nearly 25% of material that is clearly recorded on music and movies (yes, both routinely go into the teens. Believe it or not. Many times it is those without subs capable of such feats who don't think they need the extension. If you don't routinely hear (feel) it then I understand your disbelief). That's not acceptable. If your RF-7's stopped playing 25% of their material you would call that unacceptable as well. For many people, the lowest octaves are some of the most important for their subwoofer. The realism obtained from actually feeling your music or movie into the subsonics is irreplaceable.

I'm not saying one sub is better than the other. I am saying that the notion that subsonics aren't important is somewhat outdated.

With the gear in your sig you are robbing yourself of 25% of quality! No matter how deep that toiletpaper tube of a sub reaches. []

I didnt see any toilet paper on all the tubes i borrowed for testing Hmm ..Is that an option from svs ?

[Professor.Ham.Slap]

I know what rattling sounds like. This was a completely different

sound. It's like what users of the massive Tumult drivers experiance:

they "hear less" but the SPLs are actually off the chart. The reason

for this is lower distortion (significantly less harmonics), quality

construction materials (MDF vs. thick concrete form), larger amps, etc.

As a side note, I am not completely loyal to Klipsch, it just happens

they have the sound I prefer in full range speakers and subwoofers. I

auditioned Sunfire (definitely another wonderful sub, but somewhat

pricey for what you get), SVS (problems mentioned above), Velodyne

(another great sub with very little distortion, but it's overall output

is somewhat limited by the servo drive system) and Earthquake.

Remember, just because you like the sound of something, doesn't mean

it's right for everyone else. The same applies to Klipsch, SVS, and

every other company out there.

[smilin]

i would say that the SVS rules in all ways. build quality, sq, depth, spl, etc. the ONLY thing about the athena that MIGHT is on music. I m guessing that the athena is tuned higher and may be punchier on music. thats just a hunch. just make sure that you have a decent receiver to control the x over for the sub as the svs has none(thats if you get the svs). scp53

SVS rules for HT, musical, they are NOT[:'(]That is why I took big loss on my B4-plus/crown K2......................[:@]

[MrMcGoo]

SVS rules in marketing. They excell at selling subs that play where no human can hear them. They are technology followers. The leaders are Velodyne, Sunfire and others. SVS sells numbers and service.

The folks that tout SVS all play the same tired tune. We play lower, flatter etc. The naive fall for it. They willingly give up output where it can be heard for output that cannot be heard. The port plugs rob you of audible output.

The young also know nothing about conservation of energy. The newbs tout that their 300 watts is better than the other brands 300 watts. If the 300 watts RMS are actually there (and by FCC law they have to be), there is only so much output that is possible with various trade-offs. There is no free lunch.

There is no such thing as flat in-room response with subwoofers. The only way to get close to flat response is to find the optimum location by trial and error and then EQ the invitable peaks off the sub's output. The flatness of the SVS is of little real benefit once you understand the physics of low frequency sound. Rooms have extremely uneven response. It's all about the room.

The build quality of SVS is excellent, if you do not mind breaking your back moving them. Personally, I'd rather have the THX Ultra2s that are easy to move and have the output. The Sunfires also appeal to me. Easy to move, auto EQ, small size and massive output are there, if you can afford the tarriff.

Bill

[CAS]

The leaders are Velodyne, Sunfire and others. SVS sells numbers and service.

Bill

All of which I also demo'd and did not prefer.

[Speedball]

.........and I would trade my cylinder in a minute for an RSW-15.

[TheEAR]

i would say that the SVS rules in all ways. build quality, sq, depth, spl, etc. the ONLY thing about the athena that MIGHT is on music. I m guessing that the athena is tuned higher and may be punchier on music. thats just a hunch. just make sure that you have a decent receiver to control the x over for the sub as the svs has none(thats if you get the svs). scp53

SVS rules for HT, musical, they are NOT[:'(]That is why I took big loss on my B4-plus/crown K2......................[:@]

A Velodyne HGS18 or today's DD18 will leave any SVS in the dust on music.Some here only value numbers and stupid loud max SPL that they will never use.Shows you they are not audiophiles,just loud kaboomphiles. []

SVS B4-Plus for HT and Velodyne HGS/DD18 for music. A winning combination any semi poor Klipscher can afford []

[Spkrdctr]

I hope the people who are saying the 10" SVS sub blows the Klipsch Sub12 away have actually heard the Sub 12 when set up properly. It will put out massive bass. Now it may not put out massive 20hz bass, but in reality it will put out 25 hz. Everyone acts like it has a 36db slope after 30hz. McGoo is correct, it is a stunning $450.00 sub. The least expensive full service sub (for most applications) on the market. If you go up to the 12" SVS models, you are paying quite a bit more money percentage wise. It is a dollar/performance issue. If we had Klipsch price it at $650, they could double the amp power used and build a bigger box. So, you always have to look at the price in this low priced range of subs. Now in the high dollar range, Klipsch will have a new one out soon from what I hear on these boards.