"B&K" the Holy Grail for Heritage line

[Parrot]

As far as some digital amps, like the TEAC and the Sonic Impact, being great bang for the buck, that should be a total non-issue. There's only one guy on the Forum I can think of who is so poor that a $30 amp might have some merit solely for price reasons. Once you get past the "Gee, ain't that something for so cheap!" stage, who among us would listen to an inferior amp just because it didn't cost much?

[mobile homeless]

Yep, the last posts in this thread have really included some good points... So many conclusions on one piece of gear should be noted with (in the order they popped into my head):

- associated components
- system synergy
- room with attention noted to size/shape/configuration/contents
- music used to audition - music tastes
- sonic preferences - listening habits
- what constitutes quality
- ability to set up the system to get its best
- experience with other gear to compare it to
- getting the best from the gear at hand (with attention paid to all the other points here)
- ability to hone in own sometimes subtle differences
- weigh in subjective vs objective and an understanding of how they interact
- ability to weed out prejudice or deal with preconceived notions that might be faulty or steering limited conclusions
- a sufficient length of time
- the ability to realize that generalization rarely leads to uncovering the whole answer
- ability to quantify and qualify all of the above while weighing in the many variables
- the ability to put all of the above in text form without overlooking a variable all without putting foot in mouth.
- the realization that given enough time, you will taste said foot at one point or another.

That being said, I think some answers can be gleaned and conclusions drawn, at least within the variables. Doing this is no easy task. More often than not, it's simply not done with a lot of success if looking for an iron clad statement. One thing is for sure, the forums can be a piss poor example of awareness regarding much of the above list.

And to top it all off, does the system ultimately convey the music in a way that gets you emotionally involved? Straight wire with gain, notwithstanding, does the damn whole works get your foot tapping or mind/emotions soaring? So many points to approach the whole mess.....That's what makes it both interesting and frustrating at the same time

kh

[ben.]

Or, does anyone have a good recommendation for a perfect "universal wine" that will go well with a wide variety of food without tasting coarse and harsh, especially when paired with really greasy fast food?

This little analogy seems to go a long way in pointing at the problems with talking about amplifiers in absolutes and does a fine job a pointing to why many that write about it miss one variable or another in makng assessments regarding what is "the" answer to the question of what it means to have the perfect solution. I dont think I have found only one answer here, nor one goal, nor one pat sentence that takes you to nirvana, especially when the goals and means we use to measure and obtain them can shift with subjective ease, despite the attempts otherwise. Placing the goals and solutions of reproducing music within the constraints of a formula or set of measurements also often misses the finishing line (which can be a mobius strip), even if making it possible to get there.

In this morning alone, I've read too many threads to count that include a coarse, encompassing statement on something concerning audio, seemingly missing the variables or conditions that make it so, all the while leading those wanting the answer that would fit in an A, B, C, D list to possibly say, "Ohhh...that's it."

Posts on compression, bandwidth, headroom, straightwire with gain, minimum watts needed, maximum watts satisfied, are left with holes so large, one could erect a circus tent within, and have room for the trapeze wire act. Yet it all seems to stumble forward, sometimes coming full circle before the awareness factor comes aboard. It's an interesting ride as absolutes get bent and statements get erased.

And then there's the music...

kh

And after a while here, the folks with a modicum of reason tend to develop a more appropriate sense of perspective. I remember my early days here, arguing about how the 299C loudness circuit works and reverb on jazz records with Allan. Then again, I had Northridge on wall mounts in my living room, and tubes/Khorns in the basement... oh how times can change.

Oh, my vote is for the Mad Dog 20/20 as well. Another fine product from my back yard - made from rejected Welch's grapes, I think.

[mobile homeless]

And after a while here, the folks with a modicum of reason tend to develop a more appropriate sense of perspective. I remember my early days here, arguing about how the 299C loudness circuit works and reverb on jazz records with Allan.

And I remember having arguments with many here on topics they held with iron fist certainty, only to completely shift with more exposure or experience. Unfortunately, the iron fist certainty sometimes stays around as the subject and conclusions revolve. This idea of perspective is a key issue, and with it the awareness that must come into the equation at one point or another.

This is an interesting thread. Where's some Thunderbird when you need it?

kh

ps - Unfortunate this thread moved to a new page...

[ben.]

Sometimes that perspective comes with breadth and depth of experience, but some folks just love their firmly held convictions too much to bother.

BTW, if you'd get off the fence and get some Klipschorns, I might be able to be convinced to loan some networks with beer cans full of oil for a short while...

[Allan Songer]

To heck with the Khorns--buy THESE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/One-Pair-Tannoy-GRF-Corners-With-15-Silvers-Originals_W0QQitemZ5846206639QQcategoryZ50597QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[ben.]

Nice, but do they come with the Miller Lite?

Allan, did you catch my email a couple days ago?

[Allan Songer]

For $25,000 I'd bet he's throw in a 12-pack or two!

Haven't read an email since last Wednesday, Ben.

Go ahead and PM me--I won't be reading any emails until Wednesday!

[mobile homeless]

BTW, if you'd get off the fence and get some Klipschorns, I might be able to be convinced to loan some networks with beer cans full of oil for a short while...

Sounds enticing. Ultimately, it's not a matter of balancing on the fence rail as much as a realization that my listening room just WONT work for Klipschorns. I had two chances as well as another forum member offer me Khorns at unheard of prices. When it came right down to it, I dont have the proper location/room configuration nor the storage area to keep them in the condition they deserve.

kh

[aviserated]

Thank you for the B&K recommendation. It adds to the list of what works well with Klipsch heritage. Synergy is everything. You don't necessarily have to own tubes to have a great setup.

Sometimes enjoying music winds up taking a back seat to worshipping equipment.

After a very short listen to the Sonic, the B&K Pre/Power amp is easily the smoothest, most dynamic and better sounding of the two. I tried the Sonic with and without a Parasound preamp which has tone controls but the Sonic still sounded too detailed and not as smooth as the B&K through my Forte's.

[aviserated]

Although I do love my Forte's because of their wide dynamics, my B&K amp mated with my Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home speakers sound more transparent, natural, and smoother than the Forte's ever will.

Remember when Tweeter and HI-FI Buys sold Klipsch, Sonus Faber, and B&K products. They knew what worked best for good musical enjoyment.

[coda]

Ahh, a true Italian Parmigiano goes well with about any wine. . I do recall what made Kelly's B&Ks memorable is that they had a surprising level of harmonic correctness. What usually comes to mind when folks say component A and component B match well, is that they really may be leaning more in describing the rightness in harmonics that the pairing brings.. There are many other aspects to consider of course but, when describing synergy, this characteristic alone can bring out more than a modest divide between those who measure, versus those who listen.

[theryugobuddy]

I love reading all the raves about B&K-- I agree.

I didn't buy new , but bought a PT3 pre and ST202 amp off eBay to go with an Adcom DtoA converter and KG5.2s with DeanG-upped crossovers. After trying several Adcoms and a Carver, I can't believe the sound I get out of this budget B&K system--clean, pure, and warm. Its accurate and lacks coloring--

I looked and tried out so many other components but haven't had the urge to improve for a year now because it sounds so good--and the tone controls on the PT3 are effective and on the remote--

I used to want tubes, but why?

[aviserated]

I love reading all the raves about B&K-- I agree.

I didn't buy new , but bought a PT3 pre and ST202 amp off eBay to go with an Adcom DtoA converter and KG5.2s with DeanG-upped crossovers. After trying several Adcoms and a Carver, I can't believe the sound I get out of this budget B&K system--clean, pure, and warm. Its accurate and lacks coloring--

I looked and tried out so many other components but haven't had the urge to improve for a year now because it sounds so good--and the tone controls on the PT3 are effective and on the remote--

I used to want tubes, but why?

Yea, I am finally enjoying music again and not collecting bad sounding audio equipment.