I need to vent.

[Ray Garrison]

Hey professor.

I worked for ComputerLand back in the early 80's. Selling expnsive computer systems to people who, by and large, didn't know why they wanted a computer.

Retail is retail. No one who has never worked retail can understand what you have to put up with. Some people just adhere to the principle that if you are unreasonable enough, loud enough, bulllying enough and willing to push a confrontation to whatever level it takes, you can get something for nothing. I had people who were looking at computer systems that cost $4,500 insist that, because it didn't cost me anything to sell them a computer, I should be able to discount it down to $20 or $25 hundred. When I tried to explain that we (the Company) had to *BUY* the computers from IBM so we could resell them to you, and our cost was much higher than $25 hundred, I'd get this "you son of a b*tch, you're trying to screw me" attitude in response. I can't tell you how many times people stormed out of our store because I wouldn't give them something for free... people acted like there was no cost associated with software (I want the PC. I'll buy it if you toss in that Doctor's Office Management software that costs $4,500 and a copy of Lotus 1-2-3, I know it doesn't cost you anything...).

I never figured out how to handle those kinds of situations, so I left. I just couldn't deal with the confrontations with people who's only goal in life seemed to be getting something for a dollar less than the guy next door, no matter what you had to say to make that happen.

[Jay481985]

hence the peer to peer downloading... sorta the same principle because

we're not physically stealing something, that it makes it alright.

[Jeff Matthews]

oh I forgot. Retail is one of the most cutthroat, demanding, aggrivating jobs in america! well atleast to my eyes. Customers, Corporate, managers, sometimes co workers who don't work, etc etc.... But there always good things that happened. To mirror your event, I once delivered a computer to a man in an Audi A8 [] and our policy was not to accept tips. He handed me a twenty I refused then he like just take it... and literally prepared to throw it down on the floor to make me take it...

A policy not to take tips is a bad policy. If a customer wants to give you a tip, take the tip. The customer will happier than if you did not take it.

[Jay481985]

I agree, recieving a tip means that the person was satisfied at the

service he/she recieved. That just re-enforces good practices. I felt

like I was insulting the customer when they wanted to give me a tip

which happened often and not accepting.

tips tell people like professor hamslap is doing a great job while the half arsers never get tips

[Jeff Matthews]

Also, for all of you wondering how much a car dealer makes, I represent a major car dealer here in town. So, I know fairly well, and I hear about the other new car dealers because the grapevine in the car dealer business is huge.

The answer is they don't make as much as you think. The way things work now is that a huge part of the discount comes from the manufacturer. That allows the dealer to sell for less, but that money does not go to the dealer's pocket; the rebate goes to yours.

After you haggle your deal, a dealer is doing allright to profit about 1-3k on the car, depending on the model and how expensive it is. When you also take into consideration that they have gobs of employees on the payroll, they have some of the pricier real estate that the dealership sits on, and the facilities are expensive to construct, I don't think a profit in that range is too much to ask. They have to pay their overhead from something.

So, when you buy a $28k truck for $21k, for example, $2500 might be the rebate from GM. That leaves $25,500 as the real starting price. So, you are really haggling for $4500 off of $25,500. It's not quite as impressive when you look at it that way.

If you went in and saw the sticker at $21k for the truck, what would you do? The custom is to haggle, but how could you do it if there was no haggle room in the price? If a customer who winds up buying doesn't walk out fatigued from all the haggling, he/she probably wouldn't feel it was a good deal. That's why there has to be some fluff in the price.

What is funny is that all that haggling gets you the car for a price that the car is worth at retail. If you got a $28k truck for $21k, that's because the truck is worth about $21k at retail. Try to sell that truck as soon as you walk off the lot and see what you get.

It's funny that haggling is soooo stressful, but we have to do it in order to make ourselves feel good.

[Jeff Matthews]

I agree, recieving a tip means that the person was satisfied at the service he/she recieved. That just re-enforces good practices. I felt like I was insulting the customer when they wanted to give me a tip which happened often and not accepting.

tips tell people like professor hamslap is doing a great job while the half arsers never get tips

I'm glad you agree, Jay. Now, for Tipping 102.

A point was well-made in "The Millionaire Next Door," which is a very good book that basically explains the everyday practices of millionaires. What is noted in the book is that millionaires tend to have good lawyers and CPA's and don't mind paying for their advice and services - which is very important.

Then, the book contrasts habits of others, who hate to pay for the advice and services of good lawyers or CPA's, so they spend time trying to figure it out themselves or trying to get advice on tax and real estate from cousin "Merve" who's a family lawyer that knows a little something about it (which, of course, tends to lead to a waste of time and something done half-right, if at all). And the junk you find on the internet - let's not go there.

What the book then says is how surprising it is to see middle America is so quick and easy to throw down tips for even mediocre or crappy service at all the restaurants they go to (which do nothing to increase their wealth), yet they can't stand to pay good money for good services of attorney's and CPA's who can both help to increase and protect their wealth. Same goes for real estate brokers.

So true, it is. I have seen many people come in with problems that they never addressed when they had the chance. They could have spent maybe $500 - $1,000 on planning (like for wills and powers of attorney, for example), but they didn't. So, now that there's a problem (like someone died or is incapacitated) it winds up requiring 10x the work to deal with it, and of course 10x the charges.

On the one hand, we hate when people go the cheap route and get caught up in these expensive situations. On the other hand, we love it. []

And anyone who is in business for themselves, there is absolutely no reason why you should not have already incorporated or become a limited partnership or LLC. These can fundamentally save your tails from debtor's prison (personal bankruptcy) for the rest of your lives if something bad happens. I've seen it time and again.

Client "I'm in business and getting sued for xyz, and I'm worried."

Me: "Are you incorporated?"

Client "No. Just a DBA."

Me: "Bad!" Okay, we'll have to deal with this the hard way...."

Of course, I've seen it time and again where people have done it right, and when they come in with a problem, I get to tell them, "Lucky you...."

Okay, enough for Tipping 102. Moral, if you have enough to pay generous tips at all the restaurants, you have enough to get good advice from good CPA's, lawyers and real estate professionals.

[edwinr]

Professor, what an idiot of a customer. Cricket bats leave marks, as do baseball bats etc. Try a telephone book. It'll knock the wind out of smart 'a' customers but leave no marks.

[capo72]

I just wanted to throw in my recent BB story. I was there at Christmas time looking for CD's. I thought i'd go check out the Klipsch. I've never looked closely at the Synergy line. So i'm pulling the grills off the F3's and a salesman comes by. He asks if i've ever heard Klipsch speakers before. I said, "Oh yes! i'm a big fan of Klipsch speakers. I own 15 all together. I have a pair of 1977 Cornwalls and also (4) RF'7's in my home theater." He replies with," so your looking to upgrade then?" I responded "no, but maybe someday i'll have K-horns. Thanks for your help.....bye." I walked away bewildered.

I don't know if i've mentioned this before, but i'm not a big an of BB. Unfortunately Media Play just closed and there is not much else around for media.

Jeremy

[skonopa]

And on a closing note, this really was the exception (thank goodness)

to the rule as well as far as transactions go. My best one to date was

a woman in her 30's who was absolutely extatic about moving into HT. I

sold her the complete package to get her going (JVC HD-ILA, DirecTV,

DVD player and a Klipsch F-2 system) and she was so happy she came back

into the store about an hour after she left with a $25 gift card to the

Olive Garden. That was a truely great feeling. [H]

Niiiice!!! That is a sweet little system for her (and I bet it still went cheaper than one of the Blo$e Life$tyle systems). Things like that make it all worth it, especially after dealing with the occaisonal moron. I sometimes have to deal with the same types of things on the ski patrol. Most people are very appreciative of the help I give them (considering that the "help" I often have to give them is the result of a mishap on the slopes), but every now and again, I get the one that screaming about suing the mountaing and everybody on it and so forth. All I can do is be polite and stay professional (but document it all), and do all that I can to help the individual. I cannot even imagine the kinds of things the police have to put up with day in and day out (or even the rescue squads). I guess in light of all that, the occasional difficult customer is not a bad thing after all, and just comes with the territory. Don't take things like that personally. To be honost, I would not be surprised if those same folks described at the beginning of this thread tried the same thing at Circuit City, Tweeter, Sears, The Big Screen Store, or wherever else 50-inch plasmas are sold.

The local Best Buy here in Fredericksburg has some decent sales staff. I went in one time to look for a cheap computer that I wanted to setup simply for surfing the net and check e-mail (the one that I am currently using). I found a nice little eMachines box with an AMD Sempron 64 3300+, 512 megs RAM, 160gig harddrive, DVD/CD-burner combo-drive, 8-in-1 memory card reader, 5 USB ports, built-in modem, ethernet, WinXP Home, and other miscallanous as an open-box item for a little more than $350. I could not build an equivelement machine for that cheap! I asked the sales guy if it works and he said it should, but they will go ahead and check it out. He took it over to the Geek Squad area and they went to test it out. It booted up fine, but when they tried some things out, such as playing an MP3 file through Media Player, it crashed. They tried re-installing Media Player, and it crashed again. They tried to do a full factory restore, and again, it crashed. They gave me a brand new, unopened, one off the shelf for the same price (the machine normally retails for around $500)! Plus, I still got the $50 mail-in rebate to boot! Granted, for the truly big ticket items, I'd much prefer to go over to Tweeter or Raven HT/Hi-Fi (a local high-end shop - and I am talking high-end - the guy will sell you an $80,000 pair of Grand Utopias with nary a blink of the eye!), but I was very impressed with the service and help I got at Best Buy that day. Looking back at it, I should've sent a letter of appreciation to the manager on duty that night.

In the end, keep up the good work, sounds like you are doing everything right on your end. Best of luck to you.