Classical music

[Mike Lindsey]

A while back I was eavesdropping in the Northern Virgina get-together thread started by thebes at http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/671584/ShowPost.aspx, and saw where LarryC was going to make some cd's of a performance that he really enjoyed, and was going to hand them out at the gathering. I was intrigued by this, as I knew from my readings here that he knew a little something about classical music.

Growing up, I listened to a lot of classical music because that was all my dad ever listened to on the radio (and opera). I can recall actually liking a lot of it, but never knew what I was listening to. Anyway, I asked Larry if he could send me a copy and he did, which I received yesterday.

It is a burned copy from Sony Essential Classics what appears to be SBK 47655, Camille Saint-Saens performed by the Philadelphia Orchestra.

Symphony No 3 in C minor with Organ
Bachanale (from Samson and Delila)
Marche Militaire Francaise
Danse macabre, Op 40
Carnival of the Animals

I immediately put it on when I got home last night and it was stellar. A very moving CD to be sure. I know very little about classical music but this one had it all strings, brass, pipe organ, percussion (including castinets), and just sounded fantastic to my ears. I proceeded to tell Larry how much I enjoyed it and asked if he would be so kind to tell me some of his other favorites and he did:

Saint-Saens Sym No. 3/Debussy La Mer, Boston Sym/Munch, RCA 09026-61500 (this is a S-S duplicate, but it's a great perf and so is the La Mer)
Beethoven Triple Concerto, Perlman/Yo-Yo ma/Barenboim, EMI 7243-5-55516-2
Tchaikovsky Sym No. 6, "Pathetique," Boston Sym/Munch, RCA 82876-61397-2
Rossini Overtures, Academy of St. Martin in the Fields/Marriner, EMI 7-49155-2
Rodrigo, guitar concertos, Pepe Romero/Academy SMIF/Marriner, Phillips 438-016-2
Tchaikovsky Piano Conc. No. 1, Van Cliburn/RCA Symphony/Kondrashin, RCA 82876-61392
Dvorak, Sym No. 9, "New World", Berlin Philharmonic/Kubelik (or other), No. unk.
Scheherazade, played by Reiner and the great Chicago Sym Orch (one of those great, great RCA recordings of the late 1950's-early 1960's)
Monteverdi, Vespers of 1610, Boston Baroque, Telarc 2CD-80453

For an excellent perf & recording: Tchaikovsky's 6th, NY Philharmonic, Bernstein, DG 419-604-2.

Larry mentioned that the 1955 Munch is a great recording but has some noticeable background hiss which might annoy some.

I know there are a few other classical fans on here (Max), and was wondering if you could add to this list.

Thanks,
Mike

[maxg]

Mike,

I would be delighted to put together a list - but I cannot really do it for CD's/performances as almost all of mine are on vinyl.

Without going into performances and specific recordings things I would recommend to be a part of any classical collection include, off the top of my head:

Symphonies:

Beethoven 3,5,6,7,9

Mozart 35 and 39-41

Tchaikovsky 5 and 6

Berlioz Symphony Fantastique

Rimsky Korsakov Sheherezade

Haydn London Symphonies

Grieg Pier Gynt

Frank Symphony in D

Elgar Symphony 1

Holst Planets (symphonic at least)

Mendelssohn Italian Symphony (number 4)

Schubert unfinished (8)

Straus Also Sprach Zarathustra

Orff Camina Burina (almost symphonic)

Concertos:

Bach Brandenburg Concertos

Beethoven Violin concerto and piano concerto 5

Brahms Violin concerto

Dvorak Cello Concerto

Elgar Cello concerto

Elgar Violin Concerto

Liszt Piano Piano Concerto 1

Saens Sans Piano Concerto 2

Mendelssohn Violin Concerto

Mozart Piano concertos 21 and 27

Paganini Violin Concertos 1-4

Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos 2 and 3

Tchaikovsky Violin concerto

Shostakovitch Piano concerto 2

Operas:

Mozart Magic Flute, Don Giovani, Marriage of Figaro, Cosi Fan Tutte

Offenbach Orpheus in the underworld, Tales of Hoffman.

Puccini La Boheme, Tosca, Madame Butterfly

Rossini Barber of Seville

Strauss Die Fleidermaus

Verdi Aida, La Traviata, Il Trovadore, Rigoletto, Othelo

Wagner Gotterdamerung, Highlights from the Ring (Valkirie, Tanhauser, Seigfrieds journey etc.)

That is a start - should keep you going a while - lots more possibles to add

[Mike Lindsey]

Thanks a lot Max. Just so you know, I would prefer it on vinyl.

Mike

[LarryC]

Great list, Max! As a footnote, Carmina Burana should have been on my short list to Mike, and I really like and recommend the old Ormandy/Philadelphia recording:

CD = http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001ENYMG/sr=8-9/qid=1141226240/ref=sr_1_9/002-8243152-0107251?%5Fencoding=UTF8

SACD = http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004RI4H/sr=8-10/qid=1141226240/ref=sr_1_10/002-8243152-0107251?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[dubai2000]

As usual an excellent list from Greece - even though Strauss' Zarathustra' isn't really a symphony []. But to be serious: if one loves this work it's good to get more R.Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel (which is short like his Don Juan), Ein Heldenleben (A Hero's Life) - now that has symphonic proportions - and one of my favourites: his Alpen (Alpine) Symphony.

For some 'heavier' stuff I'd also include Bruckner (perhaps Symphony No.7 is a good start) and I would never want to be without Mahler (start with No.1 perhaps, No.4 is in a way less complex than the rest, and add ad lib. No.2/3/5/9 and - if you don't mind big symphonic work with voices - his Lied von der Erde - and to test the genre: R.Strauss' Four Last Songs).

BTW: for Strauss I'd always go for Karajan. I am not such a great fan of his, but in Strauss he is almost always excellent - especially in the 1960s/70s DG recordings - the later digital DGs are a bit too pedestian).

Wolfram

[D-MAN]

Wow, I even have a few of those! Don't forget Stravinski's "Firebird Suite" - DG - that will show off your system!

Also virtually anything written or ochestrated by my favorite composer: Maurice Ravel - particularily the ballets - this guys LOVES dynamics - but ignore "Bolero", which is a total bore!

I have a recommendation, I heard this on FM and I HAVE to get a copy:

Saint-Saens "The Egyptian Suite" (or something like that)

It sparkled, even on FM.

[Kriton]

This is such a wide open question that it really defies an

answer. It really depends on what kind of music you like, and

what kind of mood you are in...

I find that I have a certain number of genres that I listen to

frequently, and within those genres, I have multiple recordings of the

same piece over and over again, different conductors or time frames.

If you are into deep orchestral richness, then pretty much anything by

Wagner will suck you in and hold you there. If you are into sweet

music that is recognizable and beautiful, then I would have to say

Ralph Vaughn WIlliams comes to mind (Lark Ascending and the like), if a

tone poem sort of music grabs you, then Respighi's Pines of Rome has

always had a soft spot with me. The art songs of R. Vaughn

WIlliams are awesome too, particularly the "Songs of Travel" (Brynn

Terfel does these marvelously). AND anything by Aaron Copeland,

"Fanfare for the Common Man" to "Simple Gifts", the stuff is wonderful;

music of our century and easily idenitfiable.

I personally like opera and oratorio; if you want a peice that is more

modern lovely music, then by all means check out the Faure Requiem (Pie

Jesu is sweet and sonorous), but if you are looking for a ball buster

that is not frequently performed due to the size of the required

choruses, go Verdi Requiem (Confutatis is one fantastic piece of music

- if you dig bust out bass). The church music of Walton and

Herbert Howells is excellent as well. Different time, different

intention, good stuff. I have great organ works which will blast

you out of the room, or works for solo cello, it just really

depends. There are times, I want to put on a powerful peice and

just set the room on fire, and others I want quiet reflective mood

music, all up to your tastes.

Carmina Burana was mentioned, and I heartily second the piece, I

probably have 10 different cds/SACD with that recorded; each are

different and some are hits and some misses - for the singers it is

particularly difficult. The roasting swan is weird and morbid and

wonderful, very scary stuff. Imperatrix Mundi has been recorded

for use with more commercials it seems than just about any other piece

of music I have heard in recent times.

As far as opera, I lean toward the performers specifically, again

depends on your taste. I like opera singers who sing like there

is no tomorrow, hold nothing back - that kind of singing is just not

taught any more in my opinion, so the performers of the past are my

favorites; check out Leonard Warren (baritone)(research him on the net,

he has a "society" that has published a three cd set of his recordings

that is wonderful and will give you sound clips to hear first), Ettore

Bastianini (baritone), Franco Correlli (tenor) (who died last year

FYI), Jussi Bjoerling (tenor), anything by Leontine Price (the

Leibestod is one of my particular favorites), Jesse Norman, Callas - I

have really taken to some new stuff by Renee Fleming (especially her

Mozart and Brahms lieder)...

Now as far as older works, I am fond of chamber music, Lully, Corelli

(the composer) and polyphonic Palestrina notably. As far as more

modern things, I really like Eric Whitacre (his cd with the Brigham

Young choir is stunning -ask Woodog, turned him onto it and he loves

it...)

Guess that might not have been too helpful. If you want specific recordings, I would be happy to oblige.

K

EDIT: See, I love Bolero by Ravel! I think it is a

repetitive peice but it is still quite nice, and I see the ladies in

the salon at the first performance fainting! It is all just

personal taste! Oh, don't forget Holst Planets, Handel's Water

Music, Mussorgsky's Pictures....

[D-MAN]

Isn't that Carl Orff's "O, Fortuna" - the devil-worship music used in all of the horror movies that you are speaking of from Carmina Burana?

Actually it's latin lyrics are from an old German drinking song, which makes it even more "disturbing" when one considers its time and place (Germany 1933).

I could be wrong and can't look it up right now.

DM

[Kriton]

Actually D, it is all of those things - specifically:

O Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi (Fortune, Empress of the World) is technically the first and last chapter of the work -

If you really read the history of this piece, and of Orff himself, the whole thing is just weird with a capital W.

Most of the bawdy and very earthy poems to which this was set were

found high in the mountains buried in the floor of a monastery

presumably buried there by the monks of the place...making the whole

thing kind of sacreligious.

Orff himself never really wrote anything before or after that was worth

a damn, and he said himself when he was interviewed about writing Carmina that he felt "an

unseen presence moving his hand..."

You hear that swan roasting alive and you will believe it...

K

[maxg]

Great list, Max! As a footnote, Carmina Burana should have been on my short list to Mike, and I really like and recommend the old Ormandy/Philadelphia recording:

CD = http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001ENYMG/sr=8-9/qid=1141226240/ref=sr_1_9/002-8243152-0107251?%5Fencoding=UTF8

SACD = http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004RI4H/sr=8-10/qid=1141226240/ref=sr_1_10/002-8243152-0107251?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Just for completeness (This is the best perfomance of the piece ever IMHO)

Orff

Carmina Burana

Philadelphia Orcehstra

Eugene Ormandy

CBS 37217

Stereo

US

Actually that is an original. There is also a re-print on vinyl under the "Great Performances" title but it is not as good as the original (I have both).

The problem is you can go on forever here. I have about 1000 classical works on vinyl - maybe slightly more and have barely scratched the surface of what is there.

Nice to see other opera fans out there - and I too quite like Bolero once in a while. I have not covered anything on conductors / performers / locations / specific performances (other than this one above) but this thread could get completely out of hand if we did and I think Mike just needs a place to start.

My list is far from complete - hardly a Liszt at all in fact (and Hungarian Rhapsodies is a must have if ever there was one - especially for all Tom and Jerry fans)

As an aside I have been listening over the last few days to a complete box collection of Beethoven symphonies by Szell/Cleveland and I must say I have been a lot more impressed that I was expecting to be. I have never been a fan of Szell - but that is because I am an idiot. I thought him too......taut I guess - almost like he is too formal to adapt to the pace of the piece in question. I am wrong. It is a more "formal" approach but goddamm it is good. Just has its own character (which is almost not character - it is very difficult to explain) and the more I listen to it the more I like it.

The third in particular struck me - I think as an interpretation it stands in comparison to Toscanini and the NBC - and that is really saying something in my book.

Recommended - the whole set went for a song too, and is in mint condition.

[LarryC]

D-MAN, that's probably the "Suite Algerienne." While I've never heard the whole thing, one of its movements is the "Marche Militaire Francaise" that has wowed everyone I've played it for, including the group at Thebes's get-together last year. I don't know if the entire suite is even available on CD, but the incomparable Ormandy recording of the Marche seems to be available on several Philly Orch CD collections. Unfortunately, the CD I have with its great collection of Saint-Saens has been discontinued.

Wolfram, I think the Alpine Symphony is an amazing, and great work by Strauss. Very powerful, less frivolous than some of his other works, in my eyes at least.

Kriton, Wagner is an excellent idea, and I wish I knew of a really great CD of his great orchestral works. As you know but others may not, those famous orchestral works are just preludes or intervening passages from his operas! I sat through 5 hours of Parsifal last Sunday, and marveled at his ability to write for the orchestra like no one else, with a superlative sense of structure and drama spanning hours, not just minutes or seconds. I agree with all your points.

[Mike Lindsey]

I have heard some Aaron Copland and I really like him.

Fanfare for the Common Man

Rodeo

Appalachian Spring

Billy the Kid

I can definitely get into this kind of stuff. I guess the same can be said of John Barry's Dances with Wolves. I love that CD...

Mike

[MarkBK]

For high quality recordings and good to great performances - I have found the Hyperion label to be fairly consistent. The do offer a more eclectic selection of composers, but are absolutely stunning recordings.

[D-MAN]

The whole thing gives me the willies... the Carl Orff thing, I mean.

I prefer the more sublime. I'll take French Impressionists for 10 pts.

Or the Russians - they got SOUL. Italians, Czechs, Poles... they are ok, too.

But NOT the British under any circumstances.

A few Americans, Grofe, Copeland, Gershwin, but I can count them on one hand... That changes if we are talking soundtracks, an entirely different genre in my opinion. I'm considering "classical" genre as free-standing works intended for performance and no other use.

Scandanavians, one hand - Grieg, Sibilius.

DM

[Kriton]

I have that recording too, and it is quite nice!

I like Szell on some of the bigger more grandiose recording, the

Cleveland Orch never let him get too far out of bounds, and that group

is as good as they come, IMO.

My suggestions for someone looking for some good classical music is go for some soundtracks, some good collections or samplers.

The labels are the important thing in that case, for instance, the

Naxos label put out several discs which were called things like "Adagio

Chillout" or some such. They are wonderful collections of some

really good music, not the best, but certainly not the worst place to

start. I recommend the Amadeus soundtrack(s) for a good

compilation of music, St. Matin in the Fields with Marriner is

top notch and they did an excellent job in that recording. The

soundtrack for "Tous Les Matin Du Monde" (A French film with Gerard

Depardieu) is excellent for early cello music (and some of that Lully I

mentioned earlier). There is a soundtrack from a movie call

"Aria" (a real treat for opera lovers), that is a nice truncated opera

selection ending with Caruso singing "Vesti La Giubba"...that one has

Leontyne on it two or three times, one of them is singing the

Leibestod, which I recommended above.

Soundtrack from the movie "Shine" would be one I would look at; I

wore out my soundtrack from "The Piano", Michael Nyman, very repetitive

and very listenable stuff...that is the place to start, then go from

there...

When I want to check into a new series of works, I look at the samplers

- for instance, just picked up an SACD classics sampler from Acoustic

Sounds, and some of it is nonsense, but there are some real gems...

Finally, if you want to follow classical music in the world, and pick

up a good disc every month, I recommend the BBC Music Magazine. I

have been a subscriber for years; you get a glossy professional

magazine every month with a CD of recently recorded classical music of

different composers or performers, usually top notch by professional

orchestras and recognized performers around the world. Christmas disc

around C-mas, etc. The magazine reviews new discs, talks about

the state of classical music and opera from a European bent of course,

and lists concerts and appearances around the world. Very cool,

and at something like $7.00 a month, very cheap IMO. Some of the

discs that I have received from the BBC are my very favorites.

Check it out.

http://www.bbcmusicmagazine.com/

K

[D-MAN]

Boy, I agree wholeheartedly on the St. Martins in the Field stuff - spectacular recording quality and the performance is top-notch.

I heard an FM broadcast of their version of Rachmaninof's 2nd Piano Concerto (one of my favs) and it was the best I've ever heard. Looked it up, but it seems that it is only available in a giant set mixed with alot of Mozart so I passed on it.

DM

[Mike Lindsey]

There's some really good stuff here guys... I really appreciate it. This gives me a starting point and I will take these lists to my local shops and see if I can find some of it... hopefully at a good price. []

Then after listening to some of the different flavors I can hopefully find my niche. I did want to add that I thouroughly enjoyed listening to the Saint Saenz. So much so that I have listened to it again today.

Mike

[Kriton]

OK, see that gives me a place to start -

Try these on for size - Look for some Debussy, say "Clair De Lune" and

the like, also look for R. Vaughn Williams, I think you would really

like it.

I have never been a huge fan of Camille - maybe just my classical versus romantic leanings...

DMan, my wife plays the piano, has since 3, and can play a mean

Rachmaninoff, which also happens to be one of my favorites - get a copy

of Horowitz playign the Rach 2, and you will never listen to another

recording of it, I promise. Then again, being from Ft. Worth, the

ol vampire Van Cliburn makes a passable Rachmaninoff too!

LarryC - Love Wagner, can't get enough - but my butt is getting too old

to take the marathon 6 hour operas anymore - once saw the whole ring

cycle over a week...man that was good stuff! I have a few Wagner

interludes and prelude compilations, but they are mainly "Valkyrie" aka

Apocalyse now mass consumption discs, made by Szell and Cleveland I

beleive, but I have not found any that are worth a damn since then...

Just so much good stuff, so very little time...

K

[Mike Lindsey]

Look for some Debussy, say "Clair De Lune" and the like. I think you would really like it.

I really like Styx's version of this with Dennis De Young playing it on the Crystal Ball album (great album, btw)... does that count? []

Mike

[pmsummer]

Orff himself never really wrote anything before or after that was worth

a damn, and he said himself when he was interviewed about writing Carmina that he felt "an

unseen presence moving his hand..."

Well, not sure I totally agree. He never wrote anything else that was as POPULAR, but then, he was primarily an academic.

Orff's De Temporum Fine Comoedia is a favorite of mine, as is "schulwerk musik" (written with collaboration), especially his Street Music piece for percussion that was used so effectively in Terence Mallick's film, Badlands (the film that turned me on to both Orff and Satie).

Classical music: what a broad category of strong likes and dislikes. There's something for everyone. Start big and work your way small might work. The Three Bs (Bach, Beethoven, Brahms). Keep working your way back (and forward) PAST the Classical Period. Discover how well they could record music in the mid to late sixties.

Enjoy!