KLIPSCHORN LOVER Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Hello all, I am new to forums online so I hope I post correctly. I have a tech question hopefully someone might answer. I am building a set of Speakerlab-K's to realize owning a set of K-Horns. I am trying to select a driver. I have read Volvotreter's webste and he states the parameters for the driver selection as follows: very low Fs (<25Hz) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> high Qts (>0.5) large Xmax (>6mm) large BL products >10 T*m Nominal impedence at 4ohms (horn loading brings it closer to 8 in operation) Compliance numbers around 0.3mm/N. The "orginal" plans call out a driver with lowest possible Fs preferably below 25Hz When I search the net for drivers I find only a handful meeting these parameters in 15". Hopefully my next question doesn't give anyone a migraine or a heart condition LOL. Here goes: While searching I found more drivers that are 18" matching the parameters than the 15". Has anyone ever installed this size into a K-Horn or is it physically impossible/ sonically horrible? I am a decent woodworker, and the plans for these seem relatively easy. Since I don't have unlimited monetary resources, I am trying to find the suitable drivers that I can put in and forget about them. Hopefully I didnt talk everyones eyes off. Have a great weekend all. WILL DO MACHINING FOR MCINTOSTH EQUIPMENT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Hello all, I am new to forums online so I hope I post correctly. I have a tech question hopefully someone might answer. I am building a set of Speakerlab-K's to realize owning a set of K-Horns. I am trying to select a driver. I have read Volvotreter's webste and he states the parameters for the driver selection as follows: very low Fs (<25Hz) high Qts (>0.5) large Xmax (>6mm) large BL products >10 T*m Nominal impedence at 4ohms (horn loading brings it closer to 8 in operation) Compliance numbers around 0.3mm/N. The "orginal" plans call out a driver with lowest possible Fs preferably below 25Hz When I search the net for drivers I find only a handful meeting these parameters in 15". Hopefully my next question doesn't give anyone a migraine or a heart condition LOL. Here goes: While searching I found more drivers that are 18" matching the parameters than the 15". Has anyone ever installed this size into a K-Horn or is it physically impossible/ sonically horrible? I am a decent woodworker, and the plans for these seem relatively easy. Since I don't have unlimited monetary resources, I am trying to find the suitable drivers that I can put in and forget about them. Hopefully I didnt talk everyones eyes off. Have a great weekend all. WILL DO MACHINING FOR MCINTOSTH EQUIPMENT!! Contact Bob Crites and buy a set of K33's. The K Horn bass bin was designed around it. Volvotreter even said he woudl use a K33 if he had it to do over again. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLIPSCHORN LOVER Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Is Bob on the forum? Do you have his number/website? Thanks for the quick reply. Also, I have plans for K-horns I think they are vintage 50's if anyone wants them I can email them to them. I have some cool plans for wood squakers and tweeter too. Just ask I will send them to you. Have a great weekend all. WILL TRADE MACHINING SERVICES FOR MACINTOSH EQUIPMENT WORKING OR NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 You can contact Bob Crites at this email address. bobcrites@centurytel.net Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Cool I would like to get a copy of your plans. You can email them to wrench722@aol.com Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I have an old set of full size plans for the Speakerlab I bought in the military. Would it be possible for you to also email me a copy of the actual Klipsch plans from the 50's, I'm curious to compare, etc. I'm considering starting that project next year (after hurricane season...) and need to do my homework, look for drivers, convince my wife of the merit of late nights with power tools, Sam Adams and accompanying loud music... email address: ocsosheriff1@okeechobee.com With kind regards and appreciation if you can assist; V/R Marshall Muros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/subindex_page1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Just like Marshall, I like to compare the Speakerlab plans with actual Klipsch's plans. al_senson@yahoo.com TNX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLIPSCHORN LOVER Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 Hi everyone, I am trying to email all of you those plans, but I have been so busy with finals at school that I havent had time. I have the email reply turned on so I get all the posts on the forums. After this week I can catch up on emailing all you folks. Have a great week all, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos miguel Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 hello! can you share to me your K horn plan including the wood squakers and tweeter plans?. I will pay or can send a gift from my country as an exchange. It's my dream to have a klipschorn but very expensive and the short cut is to build one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos miguel Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 hello! can you share to me your K horn plan including the wood squakers and tweeter plans?. I will pay or can send a gift from my country as an exchange. It's my dream to have a klipschorn but very expensive and the short cut is to build one. my email: oimperio@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doityourself Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Eminence tells me that the Delta15 is a close match to the K33. I haven't checked the specs on that speaker to see if they're close. I would venture to guess that the K33 was designed after the horn and not the other way around like a previous poster suggested. Just a few simple mods were made to the horn after the K33 was used. With my speakerlab clones I'm using an Eminence 5415 15incher that has close specs to the K33 and I've modified the throat area starting out with an opening of 3x13 and motorboard to doing away with the motorboard and opening the throat to 6x13 and adding sound dampning to the sealed chamber without any noticable change in response. I would predict that woofer selection isn't really that critical. Obviously Klipsch didn't think woofer selection was that critical on his designs as he used the same one for the Khorn, La Scala, and Cornwall. Let's see, was the La Scala designed after the K33? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doityourself Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I just looked at Eminence's website and the Delta 15 would be 3-4db more efficient and have a higher resonsance. Perhaps the K33 is the best choice at this time or try and find some cheaper 15inchers on ebay or something that could be tried out. Come to think of it though, the Delta 15 with it's higher efficiency might be ok because it's an 8ohm design and not a 4 ohm like the K33 and the extra sensitivity would be wanted but the higher resonance might result in less low bass but you've got a subwoofer to handle the extreme lows anyway-right? I would consider the La Scala's as a good alternative if you have a subwoofer. I lot easier to build and I think they look cool but not being tucked into a corner would take up more room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Klipchornlover.....About the 18" driver,,,,Electro Voice made a scaled up version of the K horn 30o/o useing a 18'" woofer EV18WK....The Patrician IV....Several people have made there own version of this unit. Including CEO of Krell Dan Augustino....Its been along time since I heard that big monster....But it started me on my way to Klipschdom. Ive tried several woofers but the K33 is hard to beat contact BEC on priceing. ....The TAD 1601a Works in the Khorn but is a very costly investment. Keep the woofer board slot at 3"x 13" ..That will get you up closer to 400hz...Read Olson on constricted throat design PWK did..."Dont put any stuffing in the woofer chamber that changes back EMF perimmiters".....PWK quote.. Good luck on your 2007 project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Folks, I am suspicious that those Khorn plans are NOT the current 15" variety, but are the original 1946 version for the 12" field-coil driver, and so will have NOTHING to do with the Speakerlan "K" plans which were kloned from a post-1962 Klipschorn. BE AWARE! Apples an oranges!!! Also, I want to point out a need for a correction: First, the post with the recommended specs is WRONG! It should read Qms, NOT Qts!!! You GENERALLY SPEAKING don't want a high Qts in a horn driver! You want a lower Qts (i.e, ,<= 0.30, etc.). There are 2 LIMITING ISSUES in the Khorn concerning the appropriate driver:Â Â 1) throat cavity opening size compared to max. available throat area 2) available Vb (back chamber volume) The small slot used in both the post-1962 Khorn AND subsequent Speakerlab Klone is 3x13" or 39 sq. in in area. The available throat cross-secional area is 78 sq. in. The Vb is approx. 3900 cu. inches. Then the overall Fc of the horn 38Hz per the AES "Jubilee" paper. The K33E specs do not work "well" using T/S formulas because they are a large volume driver (i.e., 11 cu. ft Vas) under quite a bit of compression (Vb= 3900 cu. in.). The relatively low Fs (<=34 Hz) allows for a gradual roll off below the Fc of the horn and allows for a sufficient roll off above 400 Hz (or so) in order to use a first-order (6db per octave) crossover slope. Note that it is definitely NOT fully reactance annulled. If you use the Crites driver or the K33E, use the smaller slot size. Generally speaking, for all others, a wider slot is recommended. The choice of either of these drivers allows you to use the stock or aftermarket Klipsch drivers and crossovers. Otherwise, you are going to be on your own. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Is this a misprint? Or is it a spec for the driver as an isolated element, not the way it would perform mounted in the horns? large Xmax (>6mm) PWK's central philosophy required LOW xmax (I think 6mm was the absolute maximum he calculated and wrote in the DFH for keeping the IM distortion below audible levels) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 The K33E at 8+ mm Xmax is an indicator of that one being faulty. Yes, in general a good horn driver has a light cone and good cone extension. However, that is just a "rule of thumb". For instance the Altec 515 is quite a bit under that in XMAX, and yet it remains a VERY good-to-excellent horn driver! The IM distortion in a horn is reduced exactly because the compression the driver is operated under naturally limits the extension. Also, the second harmonics generated are substantially subdued in a horn compared to a direct-radiator. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homemadeheresy Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyButSmart Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 4/21/2006 at 6:36 AM, KLIPSCHORN LOVER said:  Hello all,  I am new to forums online so I hope I post correctly. I have a tech question hopefully someone might answer. I am building a set of Speakerlab-K's to realize owning a set of K-Horns. I am trying to select a driver. I have read Volvotreter's webste and he states the parameters for the driver selection as follows:   very low Fs (<25Hz) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />   high Qts (>0.5)   large Xmax (>6mm)   large BL products >10 T*m   Nominal impedence at 4ohms (horn loading brings it closer to 8 in operation)   Compliance numbers around 0.3mm/N. The "orginal" plans call out a driver with lowest possible Fs preferably below 25Hz    When I search the net for drivers I find only a handful meeting these parameters in 15". Hopefully my next question doesn't give anyone a migraine or a heart condition LOL. Here goes:      While searching I found more drivers that are 18" matching the parameters than the 15". Has anyone ever installed this size into a K-Horn or is it physically impossible/ sonically horrible?      I am a decent woodworker, and the plans for these seem relatively easy. Since I don't have unlimited monetary resources, I am trying to find the suitable drivers that I can put in and forget about them.      Hopefully I didnt talk everyones eyes off. Have a great weekend all.      WILL DO MACHINING FOR MCINTOSTH EQUIPMENT!! JBL D140's beat the dog out of the originals !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyButSmart Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Moderate all you want. Just stating facts 🤠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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