triceratops Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Man, I gotta stop hanging out here! I'm taking some vacation this week so I checked in on this thread. I had just bought a Thorens 125 Mark II with SME 3009 arm from the local hifi store. The cartridge was crap so I just ordered the last one of those Denons on Ebay that Allan recommended. Fun stuff--I'll be curious to see what it all sounds like. Do I need any special tools to set up the arm? Best in horns, triceratops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwhaples Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 It will be interesting see how the Denon works out. Should be some fun feedback here in a few weeks,when everyone has a chance to try it. Thanks Alan! And Mike for getting me to look twice! Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 The Denon sounds pretty crappy when loaded at 47K ohm. If you run it through a 10:1 step-up transformer you are loading it at 470 ohm which is MUCH better, but to really hear the Denon in all it's glory you should load it a some crazy number--something less than 100 ohm. Just run a load resistor in paralell with your 47K preamp --something around 5K to 8K should work nicely, but you should really tweak it to your liking. If you're going to have Mark upgrade to the "Cream" option I am sure he would build this in for you if you don't feel comfortable messing with this yourself I remember Max posting a bunch of stuff about loading his Denon--he should chime in here because he has some very recent experience with this one. Have fun with a real DINOSAUR of cartridge and one of the best deals in all of hi-fi!! And if you need a step up (rather than opting for the "cream")--this one from Denon is still available new and is supposed to mate really well! I have never owned or used this one, but I'm sure it will work great. AU-300LC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Mark said his stepup works with cartridges between 40 and 90 ohm loads, so it sounds like it will do just fine with this cartridge. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 So do you have the TD-125 MK II table also? Mike Mike, Yes I have a TD 125/SME 3009 set up in my living room run through rebuilt McIntosh C11 and MC240. All connected to Khorns. I use the Blueberry in my den which is my little "island" in the house away from the kid's and the wife's mess! I can move the 125 in there when I get the Denon. I've got some other turntables that I've been meaning to give a good listen to so I'll be having all kinds of fun the next few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 First off I want to thank Allan for pointing this thread out to me - it slipped under my radar screen. OK - the Denon 103 - how good can it be? The simple answer is - even better than I thought!!! Shortish aside: Tony came round to my house with a Hawk Audio pre-amp and his Yamaha digital 500 wpc amp. AFAIK the Hawk audio has been put together by some of the members of ACA and is superbly good. Matched with the Yamaha it is insanely good! We installed the two into my system and listened - for 4 hours continuous - to more music than you can shake a stick at. Now let me put a little perspective into the following conclusion. Both Tony and I have heard systems that cost $100,000 and more. In fact Tony has heard systems that cost several times in excess of even that loftly figure. What we heard last night was as good if not better than any of them. I would not have believed it possible (bearing in mind that we are using my home built speakers - albeit with a VERY good sub). Here's the thing. The cartridge riding on my linear arm is.......you guessed it - the humble, plain vanilla, Denon 103. There is no limit to what you can get out of this cartridge!!! Now - setup: Varies very much with implementation. I use a straight MC gain phono stage (65 dB gain) running at 1000 ohms and 100 pF capacitance. This is the level that it works best for me - it will vary for you. IME Allan is correct - 47 KOhms is too high but I cannot advise on step-up transformers as I have never used one. As with all things - do not be afraid to experiment - you might even find 47 KOhms to your liking. Tracking weight is a hefty 2.5 grams plus or minus 0.3 (I run mine at 2.3 on the LT arm). You NEED a medium to high mass arm to make it work properly (or a linear tracker of course - but they are not usually cheap). Compliance is relatively low in common with most low output MC carts and it will twist a low mass arm rather than lead it (tail shaking the dog syndrome). Allan is also correct on one more thing - this IS the best bargain in audio today!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Thanks for the response, Max. I have heard the compliance is low (5) for this cartridge, and needs a high mass arm like a SME 3009/3012/II (not the III), unlike the arm that came with my Dual CS-5000. Therefore, I am now in the market for a relatively clean and refreshed Thorens TD-124/TD-125/TD-160 with one of these arms on it. Anybody have one for sale, or know where I can get one (been looking at eBay) please let me know. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Actually Mike that figure is for static compliance from memory - dynamic compliance is not as bad as that - I seem to recall a figure of 12 which is typcial for a LOMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 From Audio Asylum... http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=56882&highlight=dl-103+compliance&r=&session= Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I know Mike - I have seen the figure all over the place - but I am just not sure it is correct in this context. I will dig out the booklet that came with the cartridge and see if that says anything. Note: I just checked the cartridge database on-line and that quotes the 103 with a DYNAMIC compliance of 5 and unknown static - this is the exact opposite of what I have seen elsewhere - or my memory is failing. Anyway - you need a medium to high mass arm - whatever the actual figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Just got the Denon DL-103 today and it looks nice. I sure wish I had a table to play it on, and a phono stage with a stup-up transfromer to amplify it. [] It appears that 3 or 4 of us from this forum ended up buying this cartridge. Would be nice to see what you guys think of it. Anyway, still looking for my TD-125 with SME 3009 arm. Mike P.S. It's all Allan's fault [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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