opinions on hsu v. svs

[Jay481985]

Well lets talk about acoustically inert substances:

Concrete - probably one of the best materials too bad transportation and actually getting to the store is a big discredit. Hence this is where DIYers can make concrete subwoofers

Aluminum - used in very expensive speakers and subwoofer (Think Krell). It is also very acoustically inert but is more visually appealing and a bit lighter. Still a 400 pound subwoofer is not a light subwoofer in my book

MDF medium density fiberboard - the most used material for subwoofers and speakers. It has good acoustical properties, weighs more then oak, and is easy to machine. It has no grain, no voids, and can be made into any sized panel. It does break though in unpredicatable patterns if tossed around. Screws can break the mdf though so proper knowledge of screws and tapping is a must

Marine Grade/Furniture Grade Baltic Birch Plywood - Probably better to use then MDF as it does not break as much if tossed around. It weighs around the same, is laid out at 90 degree angles of grain to "weave" the strength in. It should be voidless but some companies fill the voids or patch them. Some companies though use voidless baltic birch on the outermost panel and then use cheaper grade inside. You will start cursing when you start cutting the wood and see voids. Panels are mostly sold at 5X5 panels which limits projects and may have more waste then mdf panels. About doubt the cost of mdf

Wilson X material - More akin to Polycarbonate, this is supposedly superior to every material except the concrete. It weighs more than steel per volume, can I guess take the impact of a bullet (bulletproof glass is polycarbonate and think of hockey rink glass too) Machining eats the blades, is very very very expensive (wilsons start in the 10,000 dollar range). BTW acrylics is a viable substitute to Polycarbonate as it is much cheaper, and is implemented into the car subwoofer culture to show their system off. Then you get the one off subwoofers at shows that are built with acrylic to show the internals off.

ABS plastic - Cheap, light, easy to manufacture. Gives a viable option to satellite speakers and bookshelf type. Heck my RF-83 front panel is ABS plastic and as trey said it was implemented to save time from painting the rf-7 as one speck of dust will cause the panel to be resanded and repainted. ABS plastic is more akin to Polycarbonate as it tends to flex and mold to whatever object hits it, and does not crack. (polycarbonate is machined by regular tools to and actually you can ultrasonically weld two pieces together) These plastics tend to catch whatever objects you hit it with (bullets)

Mineral stone ??? - Have no clue, it was implemented for the Klipsch Quintet II but trey has not answered my question. RTTR told me about it, he said DrWho loves the material. DrWho chime in?

[TheSoundBroker]

I feel qualified to comment on the Hsu portion because I am a Klipsch dealer and Huge fan...plus I also sell and display the Hsu VTF-3 Mk II. Sorry, with all due respect to Klipsch...the VTF-3 is in an entirely different league than the RW-12. I've had them side by side...no comparison. That being said, I have NOT compared it with the replacement for the RW-12...which is just barely starting to ship...

No, neither one is adequate to keep up with K-Horns. You need a sub that not only gets deep but also has clean output and punch up into the 50hz range. The Hsu is a bit wooley up top as is the SVS. Both subs are tuned for depth and extension with the sacrifice of some punch up top. You need both punch and depth to add to the extension and not screw up the sound of the mighty K-Horns. You own an uncompromised product and you can't put them with a compromised sub and get away with it. I'd look/save for a pre-owned RSW-15 as a sub that goes deep, and hits HARD enough to keep up with your K-Horns. You could also save a lot more sheckels and buy the new RT-12D which looks to seriously silence all the Klipsch subwoofer critics on the other forums.

[DrWho]

The Hsu is a bit wooley up top

as is the SVS. Both subs are tuned for depth and extension with the

sacrifice of some punch up top.

Though just my opinion, I find such a compromise totally unacceptable.

(just shining some light on my perspective...)

[Badboy]

I have never heard a HSU sub, but I heard the PB12-Plus2 and that thing was very impressive.

I cant imagine a sub being better than that.

[TheEAR]

I have never heard a HSU sub, but I heard the PB12-Plus2 and that thing was very impressive.

I cant imagine a sub being better than that.

No need to imagine there are better subwoofers,the Velodyne GHS18/DD18 are two.

I am not talking sheer output,but sub bass quality and integration.

[Jay481985]

Has to do alot with the inroom equalization which velodyne sells as the sm1 or so. It is for sale on the outlaw website for 699. If you incorporate the high amount of research that velodyne put with the eq on the svs it can be quite a contendor.

BTW on another note, I never knew velodyne was owned by two brothers.... They competed in the automated suv competition. Though they failed to complete the course.

[TheEAR]

Has to do alot with the inroom equalization which velodyne sells as the sm1 or so. It is for sale on the outlaw website for 699. If you incorporate the high amount of research that velodyne put with the eq on the svs it can be quite a contendor.

BTW on another note, I never knew velodyne was owned by two brothers.... They competed in the automated suv competition. Though they failed to complete the course.

The push pull so called TANDEM voice coil with servo control has plenty of importance,before the newer DD subs arrive thye HGS with no auto calobraion sounded and stil sounds better than HSU or SVS.

You can EQ a lesser sub all you want you will not achieve the same pulse response and accuracy.Now both combined for a sub no budget sub can match. These days each Joe Blow maker has some sort of auto EQ feature.Including some cheapie subs I will not name.

And they do not match Velodyne's upscale subs.

On another note and OT...Next time they should compete in an automated dishwasher competition. []

[Paul]

What I think about SVS[:'(][] ,Cheap DIY subs,tubes made from plastic.friend had an ultra to and then sent it back,And I said to my self,?Wheres the bass in this F..kin thing after setting it up for him.half the adjustments never worked or were for show on the back of the plate amp,And this isnt the first one I have seen like this,And this is a ultra top model.Sub pushers on the net.take a Trinty for a ride SVS

[Jay481985]

What I think about SVS[:'(][] ,Cheap DIY subs,tubes made from plastic.friend had an ultra to and then sent it back,And I said to my self,?Wheres the base in this F..kin thing after setting it up for him.half the adjustments never worked or were for show on the back of the plate amp,And this isnt the first one I have seen like this,And this is a ultra top model.Sub pushers on the net.take a Trinty for a ride SVS

bass*

[CAS]

What I think about SVS[:'(][] ,Cheap DIY subs,tubes made from plastic.friend had an ultra to and then sent it back,And I said to my self,?Wheres the base in this F..kin thing after setting it up for him.half the adjustments never worked or were for show on the back of the plate amp,And this isnt the first one I have seen like this,And this is a ultra top model.Sub pushers on the net.take a Trinty for a ride SVS

Ah, a nicely cast line into the flame lake. And a very well informed poster I might add. Actually, Paul, I had a friend who bought a Trinity sub and it was so weak that I had my tweaters crossed over lower. We ended up using it as a kitchen table with the woofer as a plate.

[Buckeye_Nut]

hahahahahahahahaha

[TheEAR]

What I think about SVS[:'(][] ,Cheap DIY subs,tubes made from plastic.friend had an ultra to and then sent it back,And I said to my self,?Wheres the base in this F..kin thing after setting it up for him.half the adjustments never worked or were for show on the back of the plate amp,And this isnt the first one I have seen like this,And this is a ultra top model.Sub pushers on the net.take a Trinty for a ride SVS

[:@]

What the...

I hope you are joking because SVS Plus and Ultra subs deliver the good when it comes to deep bass. For the price it is very hard o find a better sub for HT use. And they are linear and will "lack" the so called punch.Punch the mains should deliver is crossed over correctly.

Also,I will try the Definitive Trinity,as its not even expensive. I will post my findings,but this may have to wait the end of the year.As I have some Dynaudio speakers and a big Krell on my mind.

To all those who described SVS and HSU as lacking impact...people these are subs,and SVS is designed to reproduce the deepest bass best.It is only fair they deliver the goods like true SUB woofers.

[Paul]

What I think about SVS[:'(][] ,Cheap DIY subs,tubes made from plastic.friend had an ultra to and then sent it back,And I said to my self,?Wheres the base in this F..kin thing after setting it up for him.half the adjustments never worked or were for show on the back of the plate amp,And this isnt the first one I have seen like this,And this is a ultra top model.Sub pushers on the net.take a Trinty for a ride SVS

Ah, a nicely cast line into the flame lake. And a very well informed poster I might add. Actually, Paul, I had a friend who bought a Trinity sub and it was so weak that I had my tweaters crossed over lower. We ended up using it as a kitchen table with the woofer as a plate.

Really ? your friend purchased a trinty $3000 + and it was weak,Thats the joke for this weekend ![][]

Heres a post i kept from a owner of a trinty on avsforum that really owns one,you can read for yourself.Tell me it is weak and has no beef[].You must do more comparing with subs as i do and then go get some cash to actly buy it.Any svs sub would not come close to a trinty sorry.You better do more research before you shoot off your mouth.And if you do get one Cas and demo it for 2 minutes,You better check your pants[]

Post :I finally got my Definitive system up and running. For those of you that wanted to know my opinion comparing it to my Klipsch Ultra II set up. In the same room the Definitive is a nice change the sound is a more diffused all around just like it sounded at my friends house. The Klipsch system is a more in your face sound. One thing quite honestly that I was concerned about and am no longer, is the Trinity sub. This thing goes lower than the Klipsch Ultra IIs. My last 4 subs where HGS15, HGS18, DD15 and Klipsch Ultra IIs two of them. The Trinity rocks! I don't regret this purchase one bit, this system is here to stay no ebay for me!. This is all my opinion on what I heard in my room.

Hometheatermag calls them the the bass Busters

http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/090705deftech/

[TheEAR]

Paul,

I have a Definitive dealer close by,and will make a trop Monday. [] Guess what I will probably be auditioning the sub and shortly make a jumpy decision to get one if it performs like you say it does.

I have no beef with any companies,as long as the product delivers I may be a buyer.I have just a nice fat spot for an extra sub and looks like the Trinity does not take too much floor space. []

[Paul]

Ear if you can find a dealer that has one in stock that would be great, I know through out ontario its rare to find one in stock on the floor, And I can tell you that,I had to order mine.But after hearing many subs including highend klipsch ,svs,velo and others,the subs just dont even come close for spl output,Down low bass output and extremely quick response.They are extreme chest pounding shaking monsters,When you demo one or two if you like,This will be the last sub you will purchase !

[Jay481985]

Now, on to the Trinity SuperCube...

I found this subwoofer to suffer from all the problems of small

subwoofers. The bass, while very extended, was fat, boomy and heavy. No

matter how hard I tried to calibrate it, the sound it produced never

blended with the other speakers. It was either too boomy, or too weak.

In many ways it reminds me of all the Velodyne subs I have worked with.

I played around with how loud it could play a test tone at 20Hz, 16Hz

and 12Hz and found it could indeed produce quite a bit out output at

those frequencies. I could also hear tons of harmonic distortion while

playing those tons. Even at a mere 80dB SPL the THD was clearly audible

at 20Hz and much worse at lower frequencies.

Of course, my buddy loves the boomy sound and so we found a

setting he really liked. But I left feeling the sub was a heavy burden

on my ears.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?forumID=40&topicID=45689

[TheEAR]

Now, on to the Trinity SuperCube...

I found this subwoofer to suffer from all the problems of small

subwoofers. The bass, while very extended, was fat, boomy and heavy. No

matter how hard I tried to calibrate it, the sound it produced never

blended with the other speakers. It was either too boomy, or too weak.

In many ways it reminds me of all the Velodyne subs I have worked with.

I played around with how loud it could play a test tone at 20Hz, 16Hz

and 12Hz and found it could indeed produce quite a bit out output at

those frequencies. I could also hear tons of harmonic distortion while

playing those tons. Even at a mere 80dB SPL the THD was clearly audible

at 20Hz and much worse at lower frequencies.

Of course, my buddy loves the boomy sound and so we found a

setting he really liked. But I left feeling the sub was a heavy burden

on my ears.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?forumID=40&topicID=45689

Excuse me...Velodyne subs are too boomy or too weak Bass boomy and heavy! Either you have no experiencewith the HGS series or you are joking or refering to the low end velodyne products.

The HGS seriues subs produce less harmonic distortion than competing subs.Are not boomy at all and blend to perfection when set up right.

[Paul]

Now, on to the Trinity SuperCube...

I found this subwoofer to suffer from all the problems of small subwoofers. The bass, while very extended, was fat, boomy and heavy. No matter how hard I tried to calibrate it, the sound it produced never blended with the other speakers. It was either too boomy, or too weak. In many ways it reminds me of all the Velodyne subs I have worked with. I played around with how loud it could play a test tone at 20Hz, 16Hz and 12Hz and found it could indeed produce quite a bit out output at those frequencies. I could also hear tons of harmonic distortion while playing those tons. Even at a mere 80dB SPL the THD was clearly audible at 20Hz and much worse at lower frequencies.

Of course, my buddy loves the boomy sound and so we found a setting he really liked. But I left feeling the sub was a heavy burden on my ears.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?forumID=40&topicID=45689

As Ear mentioned this guy does not have a clue what the hell hes talking about at Soundandvision,Velodyne subs are trash as well ! ? !

#1 Hes says It was either too boomy, or too weak. In many ways it reminds me of all the Velodyne subs I have worked with[] :Sorry Velos are far from being boomy and weak.

#2 I could hear tons of harmonic distortion on the trinty and they are boomy and weak also,At 80db you could hear thd at 20.[] well you better get your ears checked because they must be filled with !T .

This thread seems to be getting better every day with people that know everything about subs.[] This tells me,he really did not even demo velo and the trinty subs.An other one that likes to shoot his mouth off in a review and probably never even seen a hgs15/hgs18 or even a trinty.I cant see why Jay481985 would even post this here after reading about velodyne/trinty subs,He would know I or the Ear would respond about this BS.

[TheEAR]

paul,

Calm down,people are entitled to opinions. I know it is very irritating when I have a HGS18 as the main subwoofer of my main system and someone says its boomy and sticks untrue qualities to it.

The HGS series are the very definition of clean,low distortion refined subwoofers made to fit in true high end systems where high class main speakers like my Dynaudio Contours are used driven by high class transparent electronics.

I guess also all the credible audio reviewers all missed the boom,coloration and distortion.And Tom Nousaine tests are all flawed. []

Ok ok now I am pissed,and pissed bad.

Jay you say the Velodyne are boomy! Listen you have RF83 that you find great,right?

Just compare side by side your RF83's witha pair of Dynaudio Contour S3.4 or 5.4,you will quickly realise what boom is and how far from neut5ral the RF83's are.

When I compared the two in the main treated audio room in store the RF83's and S3.4 the change was drastic.Across the audio band. And the HGS series do not add boom,to the S series Contours.

The HGS boomy..... IMPOSSIBLE not the HGS I know. The only better sounding subs with music is the Aerial SW12 and the new Thiel subs.Maybe the upper class REL like the Stentor.

I hope some more Velodyne users with servo control subs will chime in.

[Jay481985]

It was not me!!! I was posted on the link given Hence why I posted a link!

he is supposedly an "expert" being that he does work for a magazine