Mike Lindsey Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 While I was sitting at home today I decided to rope caulk the tweeters and squawkers on my '76 Heresy's. I bought 2 boxes (180 linear feet) from Home Depot for $6.78 and figured I would give it a shot. I wasn't really too sure what I was doing but I removed the 4 horns from the speakers and went to work. I ended up putting 2 layers on the squawkers and 1 layer on the tweeters. It took me about 2.5 hours to do this, which includes the time it took to take them out and screw them back in again. I took a few pictures and should have them in a week or so. Now I never really got a chance to hear these before this mod but decided to hear what they sound like with my 1980 Yamaha M-4 amp (125 w/ch) and C-4 preamp that I purchased new in '81. I decided to use the Sterophile Test CD #2 as a demo disc that Colin let me borrow when I picked up my Chorus II's. All I can say is "WOW"! Unfortunately, my C-4 wasn't working so I had to run the amp directly into the CD player, using the gain controls on the back of the amp for volume control. I was really surprised how nice these things sound. The first track is just a fender bass guitar that plays in each channel individually and then in stereo. Very nice! Tracks 17 and 18 play pink noise at different frequencies (1/3 octave bumps?) testing the squawker and tweeter. I have to tell you... I couldn't hear too much after 12.5k hz. I would have to think that's me though and not the speaker. When I got these, they were pretty beat up. They were originally Raw Birch and had been stained with a Walnut. I cleaned them up with some Howard's Restor-Finish and then applied some Formsby Dark Walnut stain that will match my bedroom furniture. There is some veneer that's missing from the bottom of one of the speakers but isn't really noticable. The grills are also shot but I was able to save the backings and the Klipsch logos. I am still waiting to hear from Tech Support on getting some new cloth. I have taken a few pictures but won't be able to post them until I get back from the Keys, late next week. Last but not least, I am going to need a new preamp and was thinking of going tubes here (used and inexpensive). Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Recommendations would be appreciated as well. I'm not ruling out SS it's just something I have been thinking about trying... Mike This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 10-31-2001 at 10:28 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Mike I must say you sure have some patience! Good show. What exactly does the caulking do? Sounds interesting. -Don ------------------ My system thus far: 1980 Cornwalls (mains) 19?? Heresy II's (rears) 2001 KLF-C7 (center) 2001 KSW15 (Subwoofer) Onkyo TX-DS787 (reciever) Kenwood DV402 (DVD) Sony KV 27V55 (9 year old 27" TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 1, 2001 Author Share Posted November 1, 2001 Busa, I'm not real sure about the Heresy II's but my Heresy's ('76) have metal horns. My Chorus I's and II's ('89 and '90) have plastic horns. I have been told there is a ringing in the squawker horn that can be very harsh at certain frquencies. So, before even listening to them (and while I'm staining them), I decided to do this mod. I could tell just by touching a screwdriver to the inside of the horn, how the damping of the rope caulk made a difference... comparing the non-caulked horn with one that is caulked. Also, it seemed to make a difference after I put the second layer on. I may even try this on my Chorus's except I have to remove the horns from the front and only after taking the woofer out so I can get iniside the box. What year are your Cornwalls? Can you remove the back of the speaker and have access to your horns? If so, I would think they are metal horns and would probably react favorably to this mod... Mike Edit: Don - I see your Cornwalls are of 1980 vintage. I am almost positive this would be a good mod for them... This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 11-01-2001 at 10:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Mike, There are lots of choices for entry level use and a few inexpensive new ones. You'll have to determine if you will use a pre-amp, receiver or the source component (i.e.CD/Tape) with it its own volume control. There's also integrated tubes, but more money. I took a look at the ASL Wave 8's, they're small mono blocks and cost $99.00 each new, the Anthem Amp 1 which has rack mount look and used Dynaco ST-70's. I got a great price on a new entry level Anthem Amp 1 and found a local seller that had a Dynaco ST-70 Series II amp for sale. ST-70 Series II differs from the original ST-70's in that it uses solid state rectification vs. the tube rectification of the original ST-70's. The SS rectification serves my need well as I'm using the unit for H/T as well. Plus it makes it easier to set the bias for the unit. The Amp 1 and Dynaco Series II provide 40wpc and 35wpc respectively. The Dynaco ST-70's are always listed on Ebay, Audigon and other audio sites and good buys can be easily found. If you like the rack look, then the less available used, but slightly costlier Amp 1 may appeal to you more. The ASL Wave 8's should provide sufficient power for the Heresy's too, new and delivered about $238.00. Regardless of the amp you chose, make sure you can provide adequate ventilation and cooling as we talked about on the other thread. There's also an on going thread on Tubes vs. Solid State. Take care, Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 1, 2001 Author Share Posted November 1, 2001 Wes, I've actually decided to keep my Yamaha amp for the moment because it works. I was wondering about tube preamps. I'm not too picky as I will only be needing a CD input on it (no phono at the moment). I also don't need any tone controls as I don't use them but a volume knob would be nice. Currently I am running my CD player off the amp and only have the gain knobs on the back of the amp for volume. Clean signal but not very practical. Thanks very much on the tube amp info, btw... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Mike, My bad on the amps instead of pre-amps. I sent you an email that has a Tube Pre-Amp listed for sale. Wasn't sure what price range, but you can take a look and see if the seller is near your price point. If you like you can make an offer, given current economic climate, they may accept. I'm off to work for half a day. Later, Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Mike, a tube preamp is really a great way to get into tubes and an excellent decision. It gives you a bit of dimension to your amp and will surely improve that Yamaha. When you say inexpensive and used, how inexpensive are you talking about? If you can make it up into the $500-800 range you have many, many options yet I tend to believe this might be higher than you are thinking. kh f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 3, 2001 Author Share Posted November 3, 2001 Wes - Thanks for the info on the preamp. I think $250 - $400 is about as much as I want to go here, so what you sent is very ballpark. I will definitely check it out and look at some others in that price range. mobile - I was hoping to keep it under $400 as this is just my bedroom system. I agree however, that this would be a good place to familiarize myself with tubes. If you can recommend some in the $250 - $400 range that I might be able to pick up on AudiogoN (or other sites), I would greatly appreciate it... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Mike, Not to deter you from going the tube route, but if you don't need a phono input and never use the tone controls, why not use a passive preamp? The name is somewhat of an oxymoron. They don't amplify anything. You might want to check out the one offered by Marchand: http://www.marchandelec.com/pr41.htm As far as inexpensive, used tube preamps, you might consider the Eico HF-85 and Dynaco PAS-3 preamps from the 70s. Or maybe even a Mcintosh C26 for a bit more. They aren't state of the art, but might be a reasonable way to get your feet wet without spending a bundle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 4, 2001 Author Share Posted November 4, 2001 Malcolm, Thanks for the info on the preamps. I will consider all (preferably tube but also might be interested in a passive SS). Keep them coming guys... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Mike, If you do consider vintage units, there are some additional things you may want to consider. Though many of these old units were and still are capable performers, one must also be aware that in their original state, they offer some challenges when integrating with modern day components. Many run extremely hot and require good ventilation and cooling. Many require the installation of mod kits, and some units like the old Dyanco PAS pre-amps didn't come with fuses installed, which could be disastrous. Nor will some of the modern RCA plugs on interconnects fit on those vintage RCA connectors. You may be aware of these issues, if not please consider them when giving thoughts to purchasing vintage gear. If, you're skilled in electronic kit assembly or repair, then you'll have few problems. There are many suppliers that sell upgrade kits that turn vintage gear into modern day wonders that out perform some of the latest gear. Just wanted to point out some possible pitfalls that you may want to consider for vintage gear, in case you were not aware of them. Finding a vintage unit with mod's applied is also an option, but may be a bit costlier though. Lack of electronic skills is what led me to purchase the Dynaco ST-70 MK-II amp; it was a used unit made by Sound Valves last year and the seller sold at less than half price. So a bit of caution and lots of questions to sellers can lead to a great purchase and a wonderful audio experience. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 11-04-2001 at 06:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 Wes, Thanks for the info on the vintage gear. My amp is a '78 model but I know you are referring to gear from the 50's and 60's. As I stated earlier, I know nothing about tubes but am trying to educate myself. I also know nothing about electronics but did replace a capacitor and all the led's in my amp and preamp (premap still doesn't work). I'm really looking for a Class "A" preamp that's nice and warm. Also, can someone tell me how long the tubes last as well as what they cost? I'm sure there is a difference in quality with them as well. Thanks again, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Class "A", now that narrows the field some. Class "A" units are known to provide better sound, but do run hotter due to their constant generation of current that keeps them in ready state. The Dynaco Series II I have runs in Class "A" up to 15 watts then converts to AB up to its remaining 35-watt rating. My understanding is that tube life might be slightly less with a Class "A" unit due to heat from its constant current state. But your pre-amp usage for the bedroom only should not be an issue. As to life expectancy projections, each tube (i.e. driver, power or rectification tubes) will be subjected to usage based on its role within an installed component. There are two main factors that can and do contribute to tube failures for any component: 1) the eventual degradation of the vacuum within the tube. So buying good quality tubes that afford better resistance to air leakage will add additional life. 2) Heat! is the biggest enemy and quickest killer of tubes and other components. Good venting and cooling will definitely extend tube and component life expectancy. There are lots of numbers being thrown around as to life expectancy, so I don't know what's valid. But I do know for a fact that there are used tubes 30+ years old that are being sold and auctioned for considerable dollars, as evidences by some of the old used Mullard tubes. There are many sources on the net that sell new & used tubes. So once you buy a unit and determine the tube type(s), just do a search on "tube type +Sale) and you'll receive a large number of links. I'm in the process of learning more about tubes myself. Although I follow some of the threads here, I'm also getting significant amounts of info from sources outside this BB. Fortunately, I received a match quad set of power tubes when I bought the Dynaco, they can also be used in the Amp 1. Well enjoy and lots of success in the Pre-Amp search. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 7, 2001 Author Share Posted November 7, 2001 Wes, Thanks for the info. What do you think about this preamp? http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/foreplay/foreplay_line_stage_kit.htm Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiming Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Hi Mike, I think you cannot go wrong with the Foreplay. It is a good introduction to kit building and the Bottlehead forum is a lot like the Klipsch. Full of activity and sharing! The Foreplay is easy to build and you can do all sorts of upgrades on it if desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Mike, As Weiming said, you can't go wrong in choosing the Foreplay Pre-Amp as an entry level tube purchase. I've read really good reviews about its performance, and there are several upgrade levels for future enhancements. I had considered buying their Paramour Amp Kit before I found the Dynaco Series II. The most difficult decision may be determining what upgrade level to initially buy to? The Constant Current Upgrade looks very beneficial and would be very tempting. I think it would be a very good buy, plus you'll get the invaluable experience from the assembly process. Looks extremely good to me! Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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