New Sunfire Theater Grand V is now available! Perfect combo with Klipsch

[getech]

Sunfire's new Home Theater Process, the Theater Grand 5 is now shipping. It features 7.1 channel with their new HDMI video switching. Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby ProLogic IIx, DTS, DTS-ES, DTS Neo:6, plus Sunfire's Side-Axis outputs for 9.1 channels total playback. Sonic Holography. Zone 2. Video Upconversion.

A perfect complement to any of the Klipsch speakers. Available in either black or titanium. List for $3,499. PM me and I will give you a price that is truly unbelievable.

[Kriton]

Hey, is the major difference between the IV and V the HDMI switching?

Everything else appears to be the same on the preamps?

What is going on with Sunfire after Carver sold the company, have

you heard? Their web page has not been updated to include the new

models or news on the sale, I was just wondering if you had heard

anything and if this might be the beginning of the end?

Thanks,

K

[getech]

Yes, the main difference is the HDMI switching on the new TGV. Also a total cosmetic changeover.

Bob Carver was offered a deal that he couldn't refuse from a much larger company. He will continue on as the engineering guru at Sunfire however. Sunfire is a very strong company with a solid product line which is ever-increasing. The public really hasn't seen anything yet...alot of new products are to be introduced this year all from Bob's engineering group.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Does it have ultra 2 status... I will explain below..

It is the ONLY drawback with the KA1000 amp I have found.. with the KW 120 subs.. They need that "extra" juice from the Ultra 2 pre amp signal and the Sunfire TG IV does NOT have it. Now it is close mind you.. But after hearing it at Colterphoto1's house.. OMG I feel robbed from this experience too.

I like eveyrthing else.. And I mean everything... I may be forced to find a different pre amp but will probably keep the Sunfire signature Amp 200x7. So I hope and pray it does..

If not....... Any suggestions on a THX Ultra 2 pre amp you like??

This is seriously bumming me out!!! I am soo close to audio nirvana you have no idea...

And 7 matched split La Scalas.. Yes, sound wonderful too!

[MrMcGoo]

Indy,

The one thing that might allow you to keep your current Sunfire processor is the Velodyne SMS-1 equalizer. It has a volume control on it that works via a remote control. I have one and like it. My receiver is Ultra2 certified and has been measured with output up to 11 volts on the subwoofer output, so your mileage may vary.

I run my receiver's subwoofer output at +6 db, the Velodyne at 22 (out of 99 steps) and my RSW-15 at 9:00. Master and Commander makes you want to duck the cannon fire. The Velodyne has more headroom than I can use.

Bill

[TheEAR]

MrMcGoo good idea

The velodyne SMS-1 would be a great addition to the Klipsch THX subwoofer setup.Flatten the response,and give better control. Works great with any sub lacking the audto EQ feature.

Its a great tool to make quality subwoofers should their best

[IndyKlipschFan]

The only problem I have is the output sub signal out of my Sunfire Theater Grand IV to the Klipsch sub amp. Note that to date.. most manufactures followed some basic output signal line voltages, but nothing was standardized in the audio business. Because of this, some pre amps, I am sure, worked better with certain amps.... some systems always lacked a good match.

So to alleviate this problem today, as a standard which is what THX is... not a sound format as is often quoted.... All THX Ultra 2 systems are standardized to deliver a equal output signal setting for all / to all THX Ultra 2 products. This signal is "hotter" than that from a normal receivers/ pre amps, especially, Sunfires. Who knows? Maybe Sunfire does this to reduce noise. (Great for them to tell us this?? Just another one of those hidden secrets you learn in tweek-ville I guess.)

I want to be clear.

The KLIPSCH THX KA- 1000 Ultra 2 sub amp and matching Klipsch Ultra 2 KW 120 subs are fantastic.. That, is a fact! BUT, to work at peak performance it MUST be used with a Ultra 2 amp / pre amp!!

Most other receivers or pre amps will not be a "perfect match." You might get lucky, then again you might be disappointed. This is especially true with Sunfire products!

Read Now carefully... I love everything about the Sunfire Theater Grand IV / Signature series 200x 7 amp too... to date, Except this problem.

I know basically all I need to do is boost this signal some and I should be fine? After going to Colterphoto1's house I was blown away with a sub 1000 dollar Yamaha receiver and felt OMG I am seriously missing something here. Be like getting a Porsche, and realizing your not getting maximum performance at all. (Your actually quite pissed to be honest!!!)

So this is my problem or dilemma here.... what do I do now? Heck, last years or 2-3 years old model Ultra 2 amp/ pre amp beat up but working would be a great find.... just for the sub out at this point. HEEEEEEEEELPPPPPPPPP

[IndyKlipschFan]

Mr McGoo... The Ear.... Others...

The big question is though... could it BOOST the signal, and maintain that clean signal to what is necessary for a ULTRA 2 amp? If so, maybe a home run!! Thanks, looking into it for sure.

I tried a microphone pre amp that could boost the signal already.. sadly it was met with not good results at all. OK, so on to other solutions?

I am sure if we put our heads together we can figure this out.. THANKS guys!!

[MrMcGoo]

Indy,

The Velodyne adds no noise or hum in my system. You do not know it even exists except for the better bass.

Call OneCall.com and ask about their return policy. If it does not work, they should take it back; you would only be out shipping. However, I do not think that you will send it back. Just be sure to set the output on the Sunfire on the high side and use shielded cables, not necessarily expensive cables.

Bill

PS: Forget processor upgrades until they decode Dolby Digital+ and the other new surround formats on HD DVD and Blu-ray. B/

[colterphoto1]

Indy sez: "I know basically all I need to do is boost this signal some and I

should be fine? After going to Colterphoto1's house I was blown away

with a sub 1000 dollar Yamaha receiver and felt OMG I am seriously

missing something here. Be like getting a Porsche, and realizing

your not getting maximum performance at all. (Your actually quite

pissed to be honest!!!)"

I kicked yer a$$ REEEEEAAALLL good, didn't I? With my little cheapo bright Yamaha reciever too. lalalalalalalala[]

Seriously though, why didn't the mic preamp work? I thought all you needed was some more voltage- wanna borrow my Radio Shack mixer board- it'll pump up the output voltage- just to use as a test (I can see it now, a rat shak mixer in line with the Mighty Sunfire and THX system- dat just aint right)

M (jk- you'll get it sorted out)

and yeah, you BETTER be driving a Porshe next time you come over here!

[IndyKlipschFan]

and yeah, you BETTER be driving a Porshe next time you come over here!

OK, I will drive the red turbo Porsche.... I will show you what push you back in your seat REALLY means!!!! hahahahahahaha

[IndyKlipschFan]

Attention below.. Look for

calibrations, trims, and leveling out levels..

Ok, I overlooked an area... and tonight and feel like Homer Simpson.. DOUGH

As you know in this thread, I have the Sunfire Theater Grand IV, with the Sunfire Signature 7 x 200 WPC amp. I love it with the 7 split la scalas... in my HT. (I would of bought a second Aragon system, the Stage One and the 20007 amp like upstairs, but with Klipsch/Aragon no longer making the Pre Amp (STAGE ONE), I was worried what if it failed?? The Aragon amp iteslf is wonderful.. It is a terrific system upstairs.. And so far, the Stage One is fine. OK, so back to the/my Sunfire saga with some background.

I met bob Carver as a kid in my 20's at the consmer electronics show. Unlike some people I shook hands with to meet he seemed very very nice to me. It was also my 3rd time meeting Paul Klipsch back when Klipsch use to go every so often to show the world their products. Paul had made, or had made a new Stylis needle cartridge for record players which at that time was a very expensive one. People still used vinyl LP's in an era CD's were just starting.. Most early cd's in the mid 80's sucked.. Some were lifted copies of LP's you coud even hear the pops and scratches/ needle groves too. It is no wonder the sounded JUST AWEFUL!! No wonder it was so easy to say LP's were a LOT better at that time.

When I built my theater I wanted the bottom end subs to be the Klipsch KA 1000 Amp and (2) Klipsch THX KS 120subs.. for my La Scala dream system. I am pretty loyal, OK VERY LOYAL to Klipsch Products, so it made sense to go this route first. Especially, after hearing Trey Cannon and his system at last years Indy version of the Klipsch Pilgramage. Trust me... La Scalas and this sub system..= NIRVANA..

So I get this on the Sunfire.. A Theater Grand IV and the Singanture Series 200 x 7 amp too. Klipsch is very very efficient.. the soundstage is incredible.. Everything "is a rocking" except...the botom end.. Booo hoooo (Note to self here.. Roger.. Remember Klipsch is VERY VERY efficient!!)

Sunfire standards have a lower voltage out for their line outs to the amps as well as to the subs. You can internally cut or boost it from your pre amp, as much as desired/possible. I tried this with regular settings on everthing else and also boosted the subs but really no Klipsch subs doing anything at all. DARN!

You know that definition of insanity...... where you do the same thing over n over n over again hoping for a different outcome? I tried the trims.. Nothing.. hmmmm ahd set up the room calibration before.. Hoping to find a mix for the subs later... Then not enough juice to the subs I hooked up a mic pre amp (this one failed me..too much noise.)

So tonight even used a separate mixer to boost the signal.. WOW, I had BASS.. CHEST pounding Bass too.. OK, so all I need to do is boost the signal. FInally.. but wait while this is an option.. I am in effect doubling the bass signal 2 times.. which could interfear with the true signal and amplify some bad noise too. If something in the chain was dirty all cranked up.. What to do? At least I now know if the subs have enough "juice" they will rock wayyyy more than I need!

I was talking to a close friend.. and fellow BB member, he said rather than boost the bass only and trim stuff too... have you tried to lower the Calibrations on everything dramatically about as much as they could go..Calibrate it at those settings you have 200 WPC to work with Roger.. La Scalas are very efficient cut everything wayyy down except boost the sub all the way up! So what I did was boost the sub signal to its max and not lower it at all in trims? OK, I think I tried it.. I swore I already did off of my list.. Try it again, I am insane..

OMG, OMG, OMG, do I have bass!!!!! It was one of those Simpson moments..as I grinned..YES, FINALLY, I have enough signal to the sub amp boosted from the Pre Amp so everything is still very clean, I can adjust everything up carefully from the lowest Calibration settings on all 7 La Scalas. Now to radio shack everything else "up just a tad" calibration wise to blend it all in... and I should be set. I know I tried this before.. Maybe when I did, I turned the KA amp down, had it plugged in wrong, who knows I am sure USER error for sure! The key is, we all do this every once in a while. I made a mistake myself and got really bent out of shape thinking my system sucks when the solution was to re wire re check re check again and think it through what options I have.

The Sunfire product the Theater Grand IV is an amazing pre amp. The soundstage is just HUGE in my 17x 30 dedicated room. Add this sub system to it.. OK Audio Nirvana is here. Life is not only good... it is incredible.. This is just what I needed...

And movies like U571 will NEVER be the same again!!

Thanks for your suggestions in here too.. Homer out, DOUGH!!!

[colterphoto1]

Yeah, it was good to hear from you last night finally getting your bass solution. I could hear you cheesing over the phone! You're right about U571, I had heard it at your place with the old Denon + THX setup and it pounded me back in my seat. Sorry you had so much trouble getting that nice Sunfire system setup.

But now that you have SUPER BASS, the east side of Indy just got a few db louder! I'm so glad you turned me on to these THX subs, they are so musical, so realistic, so very dynamic. I've actually had to turn down my Yammie sub out because it's just TOO MUCH. Yes that's right folks, I now have ample bass plus at my place.

It feelllllsss soooooo gooooooodd!!

M

[IndyKlipschFan]

YEP!!! I added some stuff to the above post before Michaels comments.. Michael, Steve, Some others too, off of here, and especially Trey Cannon have heard me complain, struggle, and !&@% and offered suggestions well and above the call of duty. I think sometimes we struggle and argue within ourselves with our own systems. The thing is we see clear through RIGHT AWAY someone elses in a heart beat. Thanks for sticking with me guys, I knew we could "dial it all in."

As for the NE side of Indy.. Maybe if Michael and myself watch the same program really, really, loud, we will shake the foundation and start an earthquake!! hahaha Might even be better than Dr Who's picture off of the wall story! Just Kidding!

HAHAHHAHAHAHA

[mrogge]

Do you ever wish you had the 400 watt model of the sunfire? Considering the klipsch thx ukltra2.

[vman71]

I keep in touch with Bob Carver's college roommate and he recently sent me this picture he took of Bob in July 07. This is the house where in 1967 Bob and Dave created their first superamp. Enjoy!

Something Dave always tells me is that you want to have TONS of power. Even with my KLF speakers, he said that I would benefit going to the Signature model (425 per/ch) from the one I have (225 per/ch). Bob also said the same thing.

[Kriton]

There has been an argument in the past about whether the signature 400~7 actually can out out 400 watts per 7 channels, or whether it is something less - as I recall the thread (and this is probably on another forum) the math just doesn't work, that the claims of 400 into 7 channels were confirmed by a Sunfire employee as "possible inaccurate" etc. You can check it out yourself, I believe it was at AVS Forum - At any rate, and even knowing this, I bought the 400~7 and have never looked back.

At any rate - I have the 400~7, and regardless the intended output, I have never broken a sweat with my HT, with a full 5.1 Klipsch Reference 7 collection, it is a turn it on and forget it kind of system. I have had (just for fun) the current system and a pair of Cornwall 2's as side effect channels, and a pair of Heresy 2's as the rear effect channels, and cranked the whole system and the 400~7 didn't even blink, not for one second. And it was loud and not timbre matched, and glorious.

With speakers as efficient as Klipsch are, it doesn't seem necessary to me to have a monster amp to push everything, But it sure helps when you have every blasted input and output crammed with cable.

YMMV.

K

[IndyKlipschFan]

"the whole system and the 400~7 didn't even blink, not for one second. And it was loud and not timbre matched, and glorious." Kriton

Great write up...and your right... 7 la scalas..and 2 525's with the 200 x 7 is just amazing too!!!(I doubled up on the rears...the amp handles it no problem!!)