formica Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Ok, I know it's been asked 20,000 times... but I've been pretty surprised at some of the going prices on these things... Here I am, looking for a basic power bar/unit to power and protect... as well as hopefully organise my system. I don't have a ton of equipment, but I will have three power amps and a signal processor connected to the power unit. I need to be able to switch the amps with it as well as provide a delayed sequence to prevent a "thump" I'd like to keep it under 200$ to my door... Although I don't own one, I've been a fan of the Furman units and have disliked the Monster marketing. Unfortunately the sequencing Furmans (PS-XX) are pretty pricey compared the the home units which almost all offer delayed powering of the amps. Right now, with the current pricing I'm considering buying a Belkin PureAV unit... prices are very good as I believe they are upgrading models and liquidating the old ones. From previous posts (and current pricing), I gathered: Belkin F5C350-20A Rack-Mount Surge Protector (80$) but not sure it does delays Belkin PureAV PF30 ( AP20800-10 ) (85$) Belkin PureAV PF31 AP21100-12 11 (110$) Monster Reference PowerCenter HTS 3500 MKII (150$) Furman PS-8R (200$) but it has no AV protection Panamax MAX 5100 (225$) Or I could get an actual UPC like Belkin PureAV Battery Backup with AVR AP30800-10 (125$) Tripp-Lite Model LCR-2400 (260$) So... any opinions on these, particularly the PureAV PF30 AP20800-10 (85$) or the PureAV UPS AP30800-10 (125$)?? ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan927us Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 I recently got a MonsterPower Reference HTS 3500MKII on ebay for $99 shipped and It's been great for my needs. Although I don't have as much equipment (Still have 6 inputs available) as you I think it would be a nice choice! I don't know much about the others but I figured I'd tell you what you what I thought about the HTS 3500MKII! -Dylan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 I also have the Monster HTS 3500 MKII. I like it, except fot the extremely bright blue LED on the front. Parts express has B stock for $129. That is a steal for this unit IMO. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=189-025 Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 RECOMMENDATION. buy a good line filter, something like the HTS3500 is fine. if you later want to do better...buy a line conditioner something like a monster avs 2000 (not a ups) and plug your line filter into it. if you later want to do better, buy a UPS and plug your line conditioner into it. start out with 1 device and move to 3 only if you need to. A UPS is the last thing I would buy, because it is the worst thing I could buy if I do not have a line conditioner and a line filter. there are three types of devices a. line filters. these have coils and capacitors in them. they are designed to bleed off noise by providing paths that are more attractive than going thru your equipment. a good line filter will isolate between each set of outlets. these will either have db ratings on the out lets or be labeled as to what to connect. b. brown out devices. these devices have either a variable transformer in them, or have a transformer with large capacitor that loads the transformer in such a way to provide constent voltage 110 if 90 to 130 volts are recieved. they all provide isolation from incoming AC..but not from each of your devices. during the summer my line conditioner adds upto 19 volts to the incoming ac to get to 120. during the winter it adds around 3 volts. the amount of power it adds increases as the volume on my amp gets turned up...so household power runs do have a drop. c. a ups. as you indicate. has a battery that produces electricity. these go not generate true sine wave. they generate a square waves..and lke a stero amp...will clip at high loads...the power they generate needs to be run thru a line conditioner and line filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo123 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 APC has a couple of AV power conditioner units, I believe they also have UPS as well. these should generate pure sine wave to loads. I run an APC 1500 VA unit for my computer stuff, it is way overkill but found a steal for $100 with rebates at CompUSA a couple years ago, cheapest I've seen since then has ben $150. This is a tower type of unit, not well suited for AV. Check their site for the AV units, they look similar form factor to the Monster stuff, but APC is well known for their power conditioning products. http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=15&lid=1_15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 Thanks guys for the info so far... I read up a little more on AV UPSs and I agree that they are out, esp given that my amps would draw too much power to pass through them. APC has a couple of AV power conditioner units, I believe they also have UPS as well... Check their site for the AV units, they look similar form factor to the Monster stuff, but APC is well known for their power conditioning products. I agree that APC (and Tripplite for that matter) make good products that actually do what they claim. I'm using a APC surge bar on my AV equipment and APC UPS's on my PCs at the moment... but unfortunately when it comes to AV Power Conditioners they are a little more money than I'm looking on spending (the H10BLK power conditioner by APC runs 260$) I also have the Monster HTS 3500 MKII... I am considering them; the current pricing is very aggressive. It is kinda of ironic for me, as I long felt that Monster sold overpriced gizmos. Truth is, I have no problem with the product... just the regular prices. A lot of guys picked one up last month with the 50$ rebate program they had running making the 3500MKII only 99$. I'm also curious about the PureAV... esp at under a 100$ with a lifetime warranty. They look pretty nice and Belkin is a relatively no-nonsense type of company. Thanks again... ROb PS: I've narrowed it down to one of these three... and am leaning to the PureAV PF40 Belkin PureAV PF30 AP20800-10 (85$) Belkin PureAV PF40 AP21300-12 (125$) Monster Reference PowerCenter HTS 3500 MKII (130$) refurbished Monster Reference PowerCenter HTS 3500 MKII (150$) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderrg Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 I have the PF30 and I'm plenty happy with it...the funny thing is when I was investigating this I found it very tough to separate fact from anecdote, gut-feeling and brand loyalty. After doing about as much poking around on the net as I feel like doing I'm not one who believes that expensive power conditioners make an audible difference in the vast majority of situations (no offense to those who differ...I'm sure there are some instances that could be cited where power supplies in homes are such that a power conditioner could genuinely help with sound quality). I just wanted good surge protection and something that would keep my amp from popping when I turned everything on (like you were concerned with). Anyway I figured Belkin had a good rep and saw this unit and was pleased with its price and appearance. It was as simple as that. No my equipment didn't sound any better when I plugged everything into it but I wasn't expecting it to. The only way I'll ever feel negatively about the product is if it fails to protect something from a power surge. Until that happens I have no objective reason to conclude that it is inferior to other similarly-rated surge protector units. By the way...one thing Belkin advertises is that one of the PF30 outlets is a "HiCurrent Outlet for high-power amplifiers"...does anyone know what that means? How is it different from the other outlets? Is that just marketing? I have my amp plugged into it but I'm not sure what the deal is with that...the manual was not helpful there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Hey Formica, where can you get the PF40 AP21300-12 for $125? I am interested in that model myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Hey Formica, where can you get the PF40 AP21300-12 for $125? I am interested in that model myself. me too my dealer said $215 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 ////////////extract///////// APC has a couple of AV power conditioner units, I believe they also have UPS as well. these should generate pure sine wave to loads. I run an APC 1500 VA unit for my computer stuff, it is way overkill but found a steal for $100 with rebates at CompUSA a couple years ago, cheapest I've seen since then has ben $150. This is a tower type of unit, not well suited for AV. Check their site for the AV units, they look similar form factor to the Monster stuff, but APC is well known for their power conditioning products. http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=15&lid=1_15 larry //////////end of extract////////// this is an excellent link larry. it list all three types of devices seperately, and you can drill down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo123 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Is link missing in previous post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 29, 2006 Author Share Posted May 29, 2006 I have the PF30 and I'm plenty happy with it... I'm not one who believes that expensive power conditioners make an audible difference in the vast majority of situations (no offense to those who differ...I'm sure there are some instances that could be cited where power supplies in homes are such that a power conditioner could genuinely help with sound quality). I just wanted good surge protection and something that would keep my amp from popping when I turned everything on (like you were concerned with). Pretty much the point I'm at also... plus the fact that my sub-amp's power switch isn't accessible in the rack, so I needed to power it up semi-remotely. After a little more reading up, I opted to go with the Belkin as well. Features / price were right ... and I respect the brand even though it isn't a Furman. Hey Formica, where can you get the PF40 AP21300-12 for $125? I am interested in that model myself. me too my dealer said $215 That's what i got when i froogle'd it I place my order at Provantage whom still seem to have a couple. http://www.provantage.com/belkin-ap21300-12~7BELD00X.htm I'm sure there are others if you check out froogle, yahoo shopping, pricegrabber, etc... Best part is alot of these guys also price match... so if stock runs out at one place, the other will probably give you the same price. I did this with a Behringer amp I picked up at music123... I'll post up a honest review when I get it, but I'll have to drive to the boarder when it arrives. Thanks again... ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 I place(d) my order at Provantage whom still seem to have a couple. http://www.provantage.com/belkin-ap21300-12~7BELD00X.htm For those who wanted one.. I just got an email saying that even though it appeared "stock" at order time, mine is backordered till the 5 of June 06... ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 hmm I might get one if its only backordered till the 5th of june. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 For those who wanted one.. I just got an email saying that even though it appeared "stock" at order time, mine is backordered till the 5 of June 06... Finally got an email saying that it would ship directly from the manufacturer (actual date unknown)... but it did... arriving the 8th of June. I was out of town at that point, so i just picked it up. Looks nicely made... but haven't plugged it in yet. I'll keep you posted... but looks to be a real bargin. ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 For those who wanted one.. I just got an email saying that even though it appeared "stock" at order time, mine is backordered till the 5 of June 06... Finally got an email saying that it would ship directly from the manufacturer (actual date unknown)... but it did... arriving the 8th of June. I was out of town at that point, so i just picked it up. Looks nicely made... but haven't plugged it in yet. I'll keep you posted... but looks to be a real bargin. ROb which one did you decide on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Ok, been awhile since i started this thread but i got somewhat sidetracked as some may have noticed. Everything is hooked up and running along well. which one did you decide on? I got the PF40... The unit has a really nice look... a little light weight, but the fit and finish blend in well on an AV rack. It comes with a really nice thick power cord that should make even an audiophile smile... but it is non-removable which will prevent the unit from getting acceptance by the more extreme "cable guys". It also has some optional rack mount ears for convenience, but they don't match the face finish. My equipment is on shelves, so no diff to me. It's got enough Coax, Cat5, and Tel outlets out back to make sure you can protect your equipment from problems with shared grounds. I'm glad I went with the bigger model, as I really do need quite a few outlets... and for a couple of $ more, I don't need any messy break out power bars in the rear. I have to buy myself a new digital camera, but I'll try to get some pictures up of the unit. As for performance, I'd LIKE to say it lifted a veil... and everything sounds cleaner and the image is beautiful... but i can't since they were before as well. Everything is on a new dedicated 20amp circuit and I don't seem to have any significant power problems to start with. It's also a little hard to A-B test it... but if I'm ever bored I could bring the unit to my office upstairs which has a monitor which affected by a couple of running appliances. It would be a better test than on a clean circuit. As a side note... since I've got a digital power display... I can give you guys an indication of what I'm working with. At idle with everything off... I've got 126volts+ (a little high) and 0.6Amps (note all numbers are approximate, I didn't write these down). Power everything up... and crank the music well beyond a reasonable level (I'm looking at 122db+ peaks) the voltage drops about 4volts ... but amperage peaks at 9Amps. I just thought I'd post that since I see so many people looking at installing multiple 20Amp circuits for their rooms... when a single one should be more than enough. Later... ROb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Ok, been awhile since i started this thread but i got somewhat sidetracked as some may have noticed. Everything is hooked up and running along well. which one did you decide on? I got the PF40... The unit has a really nice look... a little light weight, but the fit and finish blend in well on an AV rack. It comes with a really nice thick power cord that should make even an audiophile smile... but it is non-removable which will prevent the unit from getting acceptance by the more extreme "cable guys". It also has some optional rack mount ears for convenience, but they don't match the face finish. My equipment is on shelves, so no diff to me. It's got enough Coax, Cat5, and Tel outlets out back to make sure you can protect your equipment from problems with shared grounds. I'm glad I went with the bigger model, as I really do need quite a few outlets... and for a couple of $ more, I don't need any messy break out power bars in the rear. I have to buy myself a new digital camera, but I'll try to get some pictures up of the unit. As for performance, I'd LIKE to say it lifted a veil... and everything sounds cleaner and the image is beautiful... but i can't since they were before as well. Everything is on a new dedicated 20amp circuit and I don't seem to have any significant power problems to start with. It's also a little hard to A-B test it... but if I'm ever bored I could bring the unit to my office upstairs which has a monitor which affected by a couple of running appliances. It would be a better test than on a clean circuit. As a side note... since I've got a digital power display... I can give you guys an indication of what I'm working with. At idle with everything off... I've got 126volts+ (a little high) and 0.6Amps (note all numbers are approximate, I didn't write these down). Power everything up... and crank the music well beyond a reasonable level (I'm looking at 122db+ peaks) the voltage drops about 4volts ... but amperage peaks at 9Amps. I just thought I'd post that since I see so many people looking at installing multiple 20Amp circuits for their rooms... when a single one should be more than enough. Later... ROb Those are pretty good voltage drop numbers. I have a brown out conditioner installed before the line conditioner. The brown out conditioner is plugged in on a dedicated 30 amp line. Problem in my area, is the power comming into the house. while never over voltage, is frequently under (5 - 11 volts). Last year, we had a few days of the incoming being 19 volts unnder prime power. In my house, I am looking at +5 volts at 8am, and +9 volts by noon. Often if it is a hot day, I see +11 volts. The plus numbers are what my brown out conditioner adds to the incoming voltage before it goes to my line conditioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I got the Belkin PureAV Power Console PF60 awhile ago. Really like it. Did not cost anywhere near $750 MSRP. I got it for about $179, new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Also seen during the Pilgrimage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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