Crown for POWER!!!...????

[TheWOOFER]

Yes but thewoofer said the 1ohm like home theater is designed for it.... Ok Pro Sound but hardly anyone has the room for prosound in their own home.....

Saying my krell can do one ohms is all talk....

Not talk,specs.Valid specs,the Krell FPB series amps can and will drive 1Ohm loads with ease.

All talk...... no Krell specs below 2 Ohms.

Krell FPB series will double down to 2Ohms.Not the same as not being capable of driving a load of 1Ohm. Your Clown does not double down to 2Ohms. []

And Krell makes a very economical amp called the MRA capable of doubling its output down to 0.5Ohm ! Yes 0.5Ohm a load I am sure is used in...welding or close.

Try as hard as you will Krell stands at the top of the super amp mountain,Clown well they make some great amps but most are just BADA BING type products for mobile disco and touring where deaf like SPL's are most important and drunk fans will cheer their fave group,amplified distortion.[]

In NY for now! WOW Are you like a space traveler? WOW I mean OMG you are a space traveler! Holy C

[Jay481985]

too bad they discontinued the MRA..... Check the website now! its called the evolution.

[Bill Cain]

Yes but thewoofer said the 1ohm like home theater is designed for it.... Ok Pro Sound but hardly anyone has the room for prosound in their own home.....

Saying my krell can do one ohms is all talk....

Not talk,specs.Valid specs,the Krell FPB series amps can and will drive 1Ohm loads with ease.

All talk...... no Krell specs below 2 Ohms.

Krell FPB series will double down to 2Ohms.Not the same as not being capable of driving a load of 1Ohm. Your Clown does not double down to 2Ohms. []

And Krell makes a very economical amp called the MRA capable of doubling its output down to 0.5Ohm ! Yes 0.5Ohm a load I am sure is used in...welding or close.

Try as hard as you will Krell stands at the top of the super amp mountain,Clown well they make some great amps but most are just BADA BING type products for mobile disco and touring where deaf like SPL's are most important and drunk fans will cheer their fave group,amplified distortion.[]

In NY for now! WOW Are you like a space traveler? WOW I mean OMG you are a space traveler! Holy C

Since you missed it the first time:

Crown Power Output

Stereo

Mono

8 Ohm

4 Ohm

2 Ohm

8 Ohm

4 Ohm

I-T8000

2100W

4000W

3500W

8000W

7000W

I-T6000

1500W

3000W

2500W

6000W

5000W

I-T4000

1250W

2000W

1800W

4000W

3600W

Guaranteed minimum power output per channel, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, <0.35% true THD, both channels driven. Rated power not part-tolerance dependent.

I'm trying to figure out why someone such as you is even permitted to post. You really add nothing to the discussion and only seek attention through disruptive and insulting posts.

Do your parents realize you're using their computer? [N]

[TheWOOFER]

Cain,

Yes dad,I am using your putter.Next time put a password so your illegitimate son stops using it.

And in case YOU missed it dad,the output at 2Ohms is lesser than @ 4Ohms! Not that impressive if you ask me dad.

[Bill Cain]

Crown Kickks Krell to the Kurbb []

Macro-Tech Series

MA-3600VZ Specifications

These specifications apply to 120 VAC units in stereo mode with 8 ohm loads and an input sensitivity of 26dB unless otherwise specified.
120 VAC, 60 Hz Units: These units are equipped with transformers rated for 120 VAC, 60 Hz power.
International Units: These units are equipped with transformers for either 100 VAC, 50/60 Hz, or 230 VAC, 50/60 Hz power.

Power

Output Power: The following are guaranteed minimums for standard 1-kHz power from 120 VAC, 60 Hz North American units. Maximum average watts per channel (unless in Mono mode) at 1 kHz with 0.1% or less THD.

Stereo mode with both channels driven:

1800 watts into 2 ohms.

1565 watts into 4 ohms.

1120 watts into 8 ohms.

Bridge-Mono mode:

3505 watts into 4 ohms.

3140 watts into 8 ohms.

Parallel-Mono mode:

3555 watts into 1 ohm

.

3190 watts into 2 ohms.

Read it and weep. My ancient MA-3600vz's don't weigh 180 lb each. LMAO!!!!

BTW, Krell publishes NO SPECS for 1 Ohm operation. [N]

[Bill Cain]

Cain,

Yes dad,I am using your putter.Next time put a password so your illegitimate son stops using it.

And in case YOU missed it dad,the output at 2Ohms is lesser than @ 4Ohms! Not that impressive if you ask me dad.

Learn how to read, junior troll......

[TheWOOFER]

Cain,

Yes dad,I am using your putter.Next time put a password so your illegitimate son stops using it.

And in case YOU missed it dad,the output at 2Ohms is lesser than @ 4Ohms! Not that impressive if you ask me dad.

Learn how to read, junior troll......

Junior troll! But dad you have always been an inspiration. Yes sir,yes daddy Trollus.

Clown does not kick Krell anywhere.Clown amps are designed by clowns for clowns with PA gear who do not know quality only quantity. You take your Clowish watt and I take my Krell watt.

Stay in NY ,good ridance.Dad

[DrWho]

For what it's worth Krell is by no means close to the best amplification out there...and then when you take into account the price....ummm ya

And just an interesting tid-bit....the Crown K and Studio Reference series are some of the more common amplifiers used in high-end recording studios. So ultimately if crown is crap then you can't expect better quality by going with a 'better' amp; the minor nuances in the recordings would get ruined by the recording engineer compensating for the 'crappy' amplification...

OR MAYBE the crown amps actually are some of the highest quality

And for anyone talking about nuances between expensive amplification - It has been my experience than any differences in nuance are totally drowned out by the typical acoustical situation. Sure, there is a difference, but let's not get caught up in only making just a square inch of the window as clean as possible.

[Bill Cain]

And just an interesting tid-bit....the Crown K and Studio Reference series are some of the more common amplifiers used in high-end recording studios. So ultimately if crown is crap then you can't expect better quality by going with a 'better' amp; the minor nuances in the recordings would get ruined by the recording engineer compensating for the 'crappy' amplification...

Very astute observation. I've used a variety of playback chains to evaluate final mixes, including cheesy AM radio speakers, to help assure that a mix sounded 'good' no matter how it was presented. But your quality will never be better than the weakest link in the mixdown playback chain. If that's the case (and it is) why 'ultimate' amps as ML and Krell are not used in EVERY decent mix-down suite is a mystery to me.

OR MAYBE the crown amps actually are some of the highest quality

Gee, ya think? LOL []

And for anyone talking about nuances between expensive amplification - It has been my experience than any differences in nuance are totally drowned out by the typical acoustical situation. Sure, there is a difference, but let's not get caught up in only making just a square inch of the window as clean as possible.

Yeah.... lol Gotta make sure those $10,000 speaker cables don't touch the floor..... []

I sure wish I could pay 10 times the money for Krell amps to replace my Crowns. [] But who would I get to haul around something that takes up four times the space and weighs three times as much?

Not to bash Krell; I'm pretty sure they make some VERY GOOD SOUNDING amps. And I'm pretty sure that folks who keep them LIKE THEM. But it's a shame when a troll gives their image a black eye by touting them as '1 Ohm' capable and tries to compare them with a world-standard such as Crown. Krell is a decent high-end option for a few folks with deep pockets. Their main appeal 'could' be to folks who judge quality by the size of the bill and not by sound.

[Jay481985]

Krell is probably great like owning a rocket propelled car, sure its fast and probably the best, but can it do the daily commute? I mean that is why Honda and Toyota have sales better than Ferrari and Lamborghini. But does that mean that Honda and Toyota are inferior? I mean I be the Honda and Toyota will last longer, probably has a better fit and finish, Before the Lamborgini Diablo interior looked liked it was glued with elmers glue.....

Just like the Ferrari and Lamborghini, the Krell is a delicate ornament. It is designed to impress people and the person that owns it. Its the wow factor, WOW I OWN IT NOW..... to own krell and like thewoofer says the economy Krell MRA, you really need to have the money to time to use it as like the exotics. You need special outlet voltage, you need the room for those 600 pound monsters, you need a damn good a/c, you need great speakers to pair them up, great cd players, great electric current, room acoustics, etc etc etc ...... wow no wonder more millionaires have a bose system.... just plug and play.....

[TheWOOFER]

And just an interesting tid-bit....the Crown K and Studio Reference series are some of the more common amplifiers used in high-end recording studios. So ultimately if crown is crap then you can't expect better quality by going with a 'better' amp; the minor nuances in the recordings would get ruined by the recording engineer compensating for the 'crappy' amplification...

Very astute observation. I've used a variety of playback chains to evaluate final mixes, including cheesy AM radio speakers, to help assure that a mix sounded 'good' no matter how it was presented. But your quality will never be better than the weakest link in the mixdown playback chain. If that's the case (and it is) why 'ultimate' amps as ML and Krell are not used in EVERY decent mix-down suite is a mystery to me.

OR MAYBE the crown amps actually are some of the highest quality

Gee, ya think? LOL []

And for anyone talking about nuances between expensive amplification - It has been my experience than any differences in nuance are totally drowned out by the typical acoustical situation. Sure, there is a difference, but let's not get caught up in only making just a square inch of the window as clean as possible.

Yeah.... lol Gotta make sure those $10,000 speaker cables don't touch the floor..... []

I sure wish I could pay 10 times the money for Krell amps to replace my Crowns. [] But who would I get to haul around something that takes up four times the space and weighs three times as much?

Not to bash Krell; I'm pretty sure they make some VERY GOOD SOUNDING amps. And I'm pretty sure that folks who keep them LIKE THEM. But it's a shame when a troll gives their image a black eye by touting them as '1 Ohm' capable and tries to compare them with a world-standard such as Crown. Krell is a decent high-end option for a few folks with deep pockets. Their main appeal 'could' be to folks who judge quality by the size of the bill and not by sound.

Damn pulling the chains brings results!

Most studios do use Crown,yes. Why because they cost way less than the high end amps.Use active cooling(take less space,weigh way way less and cost way less).All these factors are a consideration for 99% of studios.

High end amps are used by studios,if you know sometimg about famed recording studios you should know this.

Its not because many studios use some cheapo Yamaha monitors that these are even close to Genelec or Dynaudio Air monitors. Price is a factor

Crown amps in general are not the caliber of true high end amps,no matter what you like to dream up.Only thier three top of the line amps are worthy,the rest is amp a ton gear for clubs and ideal for touring(shows where massive wattage winns over refinement,and refinement not neede since the massive SPL stunns the srowd at concerts).

Cain,

First Krell amps are not practical for any touring as they are massive,big and costly per watt.Yes they are capable of driving 1 Ohm loads. That is besides the point

And you do not know little about Krell judging from your post Cain.Krell amps belong to the elite of the amp world.Like it or not,Crown makes good amps for touring and sound reinforcement.

You keep your Clown and I will keep my Diana Krell

[DrWho]

Most studios do use Crown,yes. Why because they cost way less than the high end amps.Use active cooling(take less space,weigh way way less and cost way less).All these factors are a consideration for 99% of studios.

High end amps are used by studios,if you know sometimg about famed recording studios you should know this.

The weight and size of an amplifier has absolutely no bearing in a recording studio - it never moves and has an entire amp rack dedicated to it. As far as cost is concerned....I'm pretty sure $2 million+ studios are getting whatever amplification they want. Heck, most good studios are running at least 3 pairs of monitoring: the standard nearfield monitor, a pair of farfields, and then a pair of crappy ones for referencing. I've even seen a couple of studios that implement referencing in the car too.

[TheWOOFER]

Most studios do use Crown,yes. Why because they cost way less than the high end amps.Use active cooling(take less space,weigh way way less and cost way less).All these factors are a consideration for 99% of studios.

High end amps are used by studios,if you know sometimg about famed recording studios you should know this.

The weight and size of an amplifier has absolutely no bearing in a recording studio - it never moves and has an entire amp rack dedicated to it. As far as cost is concerned....I'm pretty sure $2 million+ studios are getting whatever amplification they want. Heck, most good studios are running at least 3 pairs of monitoring: the standard nearfield monitor, a pair of farfields, and then a pair of crappy ones for referencing. I've even seen a couple of studios that implement referencing in the car too.

Finally a better debate

When you say weight and size has ABSOLUTLEY NO bearing in a recording studio,this is not correct.

Any studio even with a mighty budget,will consider the size and weight of a power amp.As they use amps in multiples and rack mountable amps make sense where big passive convection cooled giants would be impractical. And when a rackmount amp fails,you replace one fast.

So very true cost is secondary but practicality is the main factor for just about any studio.

[DrWho]

Seriously, what studio experience do you have?

You only need one amplifier per pair of speakers and speakers/amps

RARELY fail. In the freak isntances that they do, you just repatch the

signal path.

And for what it's worth, the passively cooled amplifiers are optomized

for rack mounting...I seriously don't understand what you're trying to

say. No serious studio is going to accept a reduction in audio fidelity

for any convenience...the most "practical" factor in the studio is the

upmost in quality.

[TheWOOFER]

Seriously, what studio experience do you have?

You only need one amplifier per pair of speakers and speakers/amps RARELY fail. In the freak isntances that they do, you just repatch the signal path.

And for what it's worth, the passively cooled amplifiers are optomized for rack mounting...I seriously don't understand what you're trying to say. No serious studio is going to accept a reduction in audio fidelity for any convenience...the most "practical" factor in the studio is the upmost in quality.

I do not work in a studio so to answer the question NO direct studio experience. But I've talked with a good few sound engineers who work in studios and let me tell you the client is most of the time interested by a product that sounds good for the masses.And masses do not have high quality playback gear. So your "reduction of fidelity" does not stand.

Fact is only a handfull of studios produce true quality,I am talking sound quality not genre of music based on a personal preference. And more often then not they rely on amplified Dynaudio monitoring speakers.And in the amp departament they use Bryston amps when passive monitors/mains monitors are used.Crown may be the most populat amp in studios but this is not an indication of quality.And I say again,Crown does make some very good amps.

In fact judging the the majority of albums produced audio fidelity was NOT a priority or B gear is to blame.Or again a bit of both.

Now let me return the question,what real studio experience do you have?

And if Crown makes such refined power amps why do you people have to hide in the subwoofer section to talk about power amps! To me that is the faith you show,what is using Crown in a "High-End" system a crime? []

[chops]

Out of pure boredom, I have been looking through a few general Google searches under "recording studio", "recording booth", "studio equipment", etc, etc, etc...

I even sat down for a little bit in front of my two CD racks to look up the "technical specs" that some of the CDs include in the CD sleeves.

What I have seen mostly are Hafler, Bryston, Threshold, Lexicon, QSC, Crown, Carver Pro, Sampson and Mackie.

Not a single one anywhere (whether on my CDs or on the internet) did I see any studio using Krell amplification.

And for something that has nothing to do with the subject at hand...

Wendy Carlos uses 4 Klipschorns and 4 Cornwalls, 2 Velodyne ULD-12 Servo subs, 2 TOA Model P-75D amps, 4 Marantz A1 amps, and an Onkyo A-8150 amp.

Here's a couple pics of the 4 Cornwalls she uses...

[DrWho]

Now let me return the question,what real studio experience do you have?

And if Crown makes such refined power amps why do you people have to

hide in the subwoofer section to talk about power amps! To me that is

the faith you show,what is using Crown in a "High-End" system a crime?

[]

14 years so far - been doing it since I was 8. Even had

a few songs on the radio. I worked in a tape studio for the first 9

years or so and then inherited the setup and promptly converted to

digital. I have also dabbled around a bit in other studios in the

chicagoland area - it's not exactly Nashville around here, but there

are plenty of cool musicians and toys to play with.

Nevertheless, I have to agree that the studio is catering to the

musicians - but not all musicians are deaf. In fact, one of the better

pair of ears I know is a studio drummer.

Anyways, the reason we're talking about power amps 'down here' is

because Greg (steamer) was specifically asking for power amp

recommendations. You will actually notice me mentioning crown in quite

a few threads all over the forum. I find that a lot of people that

knock "pro amps" typically have 'impedance mismatches' which will most

certainly result in a poor noise floor and harsh grainy mids.

Another thing I find interesting is how a lot of consumer gear is

nearly identical to pro-amp toplogies...just repackaged to look

prettier.

[Jay481985]

Most studios do use Crown,yes. Why because they cost way less than the high end amps.Use active cooling(take less space,weigh way way less and cost way less).All these factors are a consideration for 99% of studios.

High end amps are used by studios,if you know sometimg about famed recording studios you should know this.

The weight and size of an amplifier has absolutely no bearing in a recording studio - it never moves and has an entire amp rack dedicated to it. As far as cost is concerned....I'm pretty sure $2 million+ studios are getting whatever amplification they want. Heck, most good studios are running at least 3 pairs of monitoring: the standard nearfield monitor, a pair of farfields, and then a pair of crappy ones for referencing. I've even seen a couple of studios that implement referencing in the car too.

A krell amp or any passive amp will most definitely fail in a studio environment. That or Thermal shut down will happen mid recording. The Krell is passively cooled, hence the bigger enclosure. If you stick it into a small enclosure or usually closed enclosure like the pro amp racks, there is not enough air movement to cool it down. that is why many amps have a back to front ait movement design. TheWoofer, get your instruction manual and post how much clearance the amp needs on every side.

An example of how this works is like:

My roommate for last semester was all about design and nothing about how things need to work properly. He stuffs his computer with no air ventilation and he gets bsod. He tried to push my Promedia Ultra Subwoofer into the wall so not only does it block the port, it blocks the heatsink. I took it back after he moved it when I told him not to. And lastly the refridgerator. He pushed the coils all the way to the wall to make it look better. Then what happened? He burned the motorout as it was too hot and was on all the time.

[TheSoundBroker]

Ahem...back to the ORIGINAL question...

Good amps for subwoofer use...

Blue Ice Amp...not my cuppa. Low damping factor and it is OBNOXIOUSLY gaudy. There are also few published specs on their website. Actually there is basically NOTHING on their website to speak of. There is an arguement as to whether that amp has a -3db point at 40 hz...you really want to use it to drive subs? Crown? Full set of specs and a forum where you can post and the engineers will post back answers, often in hours. Most of the models are down 3 db at 10.

Check out the Crown K1 and K-2. Both highly respected for LFE use.

Crown XLS. Not bad, a bit low on the damping factor...not my first recommendation for a dedicated sub amp.

The new Crown XTI series looks very good for sub use. It is also voltage efficient. Over double the damping factor of XLS but more $$, though it does have a built in LFE parametric section...kinda like a BFD light onboard!

Crown Macrotech's. Very good, but watch your wall voltage...they can suck it down. 20 amp lines are a must.

Crown I-Tech. Big horsepower. >5000 on the damping factor which is HUGE. Yeah, it is a good subwoofer amp to say the least. Wall voltage is a "no duh". By the way...why doesn't Krell publish damping factors on their amps? I looked in their manuals and couldn't find it.

Crown Comtech. These sometimes come up CHEAP. I just missed a Comtech 1600 on Ebay, a massive beast. Woulda made a great sub amp. Input pack needs to be upgraded to take XLR's but that is cheap. Again...you'll need 20 amp lines for the bigger ones.

Crown/Techron. Talk about massive! These are industrial amps used to run servo motors, shaker tables, etc. You think Krell will run loads...man, they aren't even on the same PLANET as the biggest Techron amps. Their biggest setup requires 230v 3 phase, will run a 0.25 ohm load, and delivers a constant (not peak, constant) 180 amps of power which translates into MANY MANY kilowatts of power...enough to literally kill you. They also happen to sound PHENOMINAL. So there. [] The 7560 and 7570 come up on Ebay in the $700 range but they probably should be gone thru since many have lead hard lives. Rebuilt, they would giggle uncontrollably at a home subwoofer setup.

Other than Crown...

Bryston 7B. Far Far Bigger power supply than your 4B. More control.

Bryston 14B. Stereo version of the above...but a bit less power supply capacitance/ch than the 7B. Stick with 7B's if you can for LFE use (this from direct experience running the bass columns on PMC MB2/XBD's where we were clipping the 14b and had better luck with the 7B.

Bryston 28B SST monoblocks. Krell look out. This beast is coming soon. Get an electrician. No pricing announced yet that I know of...probably $5K each.

Another 4B...shoulda grabbed that other one...you coulda made money! Good amps in mono. Problem is, their damping factor gets halved and that could be an issue in that it starts at 300 to begin with. Up top and in stereo, still a great amp. In mono, maybe not the best LFE amps. Current SST version is better in that respect.

Mackie M2600. Big, beefy horsepower. Also needs wall amperage. I may have a used one coming in (actually getting a pair...but will probably keep one and sell the other). One of the better deals in bass land...lots of people keep them.

QSC Powerlight, PLX-2. Excellent for bass. Bob Lee at QSC is active on the AVS forum.

QSC RMX (Bigger ones). Also excellent but power hungry. The guys at Danley Labs like the bigger QSC's and that says a LOT for bass.

Lab Gruppen. Expensive studio amps...another recommendation from the guys at Danley Labs for LFE...trust me, those guys KNOW bass.

Behringer EP-2500. Probably the best cheap sub amp. I sell them for $299. >300 damping factor, 450 w/ch at 8, 1300 bridged mono, though again, you half the damping factor in mono. Lot of guys using them for dedicated IB sub amps on the AVS forum.

Krell? Not bad. I've replaced a number of them with Bryston amps. Their current models are bling bling city with more polished metal than is on display at the Barrett Jackson. In studios...sorry, you are probably gonna find Bryston if they are using higher end passive cooled amps. They are more neutral, more transparent, and bulletproof. Just why is it that Krell doesn't do a 20 year warranty like Bryston? They certainly charge enough for them...oh wait...I've seen a number go down in flames...that's why. I used to sell them. Oh, and I don't believe their current amps are 1 ohm rated. Why bother? Nobody in the home market runs constant 1 ohm loads after the silliness of the Apogee Scintillas faded from memory (thank GOD!). As for banks of pro subs...most pro guys simply thow more amps at it than run tons of cabinets with a super low impedence and risk an amp meltdown in the middle of a performance (the ULTIMATE engineers nightmare).

[Jay481985]

I heard the PLX-2 and PLX have a bit lower floor noise than the RMX. Though the RMX is all about beefy wattage. Just compare the two and you will see the RMX is the industrial or commercial grade of the two. I mean the RMX has its own flip circuit breaker..... But I heard that the PLX is no slouch and is up there and is quieter too but I guess it comes to 20 (PLX) pounds or 80 pounds (RMX 5050)!!! ouch!