jcmusic Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Ok my speakers sound fine, but the wire in them is going on 30 years old; should this wire be replaced? If so with what type wire, we this improve upon the sound. I have already had BEC rework the xovers. Comments and or opinions please. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 How often do you replace the wiring in your home? It's copper it'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Ok my speakers sound fine, but the wire in them is going on 30 years old; should this wire be replaced? If so with what type wire, we this improve upon the sound. I have already had BEC rework the xovers. Comments and or opinions please. Jay would worry about it only if you see what looks like green dust on the exposed ends of the wires. The oxidation is normally found on lamp cord type wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 when does skin effect start to take effect? What gauge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 when does skin effect start to take effect? What gauge? OH NO SKIN EFFECT IS BACK! RUN FOR THE HILLS. LOCK YOU DAUGHTERS IN THE ATTICK! SAVE YOUR SOULS! I for one, don't bat an eylid for SKIN EFFECT. A double barrel 12 Gauge takes care of SKIN EFFECT nicely. My wife and daughters are safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Well I remember reading that the twisted strands of wire is better due to the whole skin effect. I believe AT&T even had an annoying buzz in the wire using single strand untill they changed to the twisted kind. But if the skin is tarnished I would hypothesis that the wire is adding alot of resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 A better question may be "At what frequencies does skin effect matter?" A search of this forum will reveal at least one informed opinion that skin effect is not relevant at audible frequencies. It only matters at MUCH higher frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 How often do you replace the wiring in your home? It's copper it'll be fine. Since when do you listen to music though the power lines in your house? A standard household A/C line has 110-120 volts of juice along with up to 15 amps of current to easily push through the little amounts of resistance created by oxidation buildup on the lines to not effect anything. The effects of oxidation buildup is much greater to an audio amplifier due to the lower voltages and amperages. No Mike, I am not making a "personal attack" on you, just merely making a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 help help I'm being repressed- you saw it didnt' you? Right you are Chops- it was a poor attempt at humour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 unless there is an obvious problem like has already been mention " oxididation " no need to change .it would be better to make sure all terminals are tight. skin effect is usually visible with rippling of the outer cover after approx 60 years,or excessive exposure to direct sunlight and is irreversible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I remember you could run the ethernet through the powercords..... different hertz, audio no, the 60 hertz would kill it but ethernet yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Unless you have done so already, it always seems to help to reset all the screw connections for the wires and perhaps inspect all the solders. The connections suffer more than the wire. Of course, if you pull all the wire out to inspect and redo the connections, might as well redo with fresh wire fat clean wire. There are some wires made now that are not only big fat gauge, but are floppy enough to manage in the confined space of the crossover, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I say why not go ahead and replace that old wire. Done right, it shouldn't have any negative effects. It's really not that much work. Get everything you will need and do it someday when you're looking around for something to do. Any decent lamp cord size or larger wire if you're feeling it should be fine. Crimp on some new shinny connectors. Clean up those old screws the best you can. Make sure all your new connections are nice and tight! Put on some tunes and enjoy the good job you've done. You'll have piece of mind, the pure enjoyment of doing it yourself, and bragging rights to why they sound so good now. I enjoyed doing mine. They look nicer and did I tell you how good they sound now. It's a fun hobby and the DIY part of it makes it that much more so. Enjoy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 how old are these speakers? I remember reading before they had eulotatic (sp) or so solder every joint had to be reheated ever so years for optimal performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 How often do you replace the wiring in your home? It's copper it'll be fine. Since when do you listen to music though the power lines in your house? A standard household A/C line has 110-120 volts of juice along with up to 15 amps of current to easily push through the little amounts of resistance created by oxidation buildup on the lines to not effect anything. The effects of oxidation buildup is much greater to an audio amplifier due to the lower voltages and amperages. This statement is not only contradicting itself but not a good comparison to support the differences. First: Power amp output can be up to 50 volts AC or more, at many amps. So this is very similar to houshold current. For example, to deliver 200 watts to an 8 ohm speaker requires 40 volts at 5 amps. This is in the ball park of household current and voltages and thus we cannot simply disregard comparisons. If we were off by a factor of a hundred then OK. Second: Higher currents require better conductors and would be more affected by oxidation than lower current speaker requirements. A very low current may be unaffected by oxidation, while a higher current will. Source voltage is not a factor at all, since it is the IR loss determined by the current and resistance of the wire/interconnect that will determine the voltage drop. Terms such as "juice" and "push thru" are meaningless in a technical discussion. Furthermore, as long as the ends have good contacts, oxidation on the surface of individual strands would not affect conductivity much as long as it is not deep. If you believe that individually insulated Litz wire is good, then individually insulated by oxidation speaker wire should be good too! And of course skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies. This has been known for a hundred years and does not need to be redundantly re-proven over and over again! According to the scientific method by which our civilization survives, it would be up to cable companies to prove that skin effect is important, not the oher way around! And with that, have a good day Chops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 How often do you replace the wiring in your home? It's copper it'll be fine. Since when do you listen to music though the power lines in your house? A standard household A/C line has 110-120 volts of juice along with up to 15 amps of current to easily push through the little amounts of resistance created by oxidation buildup on the lines to not effect anything. The effects of oxidation buildup is much greater to an audio amplifier due to the lower voltages and amperages. This statement is not only contradicting itself but not a good comparison to support the differences. First: Power amp output can be up to 50 volts AC or more, at many amps. So this is very similar to houshold current. For example, to deliver 200 watts to an 8 ohm speaker requires 40 volts at 5 amps. This is in the ball park of household current and voltages and thus we cannot simply disregard comparisons. If we were off by a factor of a hundred then OK. Second: Higher currents require better conductors and would be more affected by oxidation than lower current speaker requirements. A very low current may be unaffected by oxidation, while a higher current will. Source voltage is not a factor at all, since it is the IR loss determined by the current and resistance of the wire/interconnect that will determine the voltage drop. Terms such as "juice" and "push thru" are meaningless in a technical discussion. Furthermore, as long as the ends have good contacts, oxidation on the surface of individual strands would not affect conductivity much as long as it is not deep. If you believe that individually insulated Litz wire is good, then individually insulated by oxidation speaker wire should be good too! And of course skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies. This has been known for a hundred years and does not need to be redundantly re-proven over and over again! According to the scientific method by which our civilization survives, it would be up to cable companies to prove that skin effect is important, not the oher way around! And with that, have a good day Chops! Do audio signals behave differently thru a conductor depending what frequency they operate at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 How often do you replace the wiring in your home? It's copper it'll be fine. Since when do you listen to music though the power lines in your house? A standard household A/C line has 110-120 volts of juice along with up to 15 amps of current to easily push through the little amounts of resistance created by oxidation buildup on the lines to not effect anything. The effects of oxidation buildup is much greater to an audio amplifier due to the lower voltages and amperages. This statement is not only contradicting itself but not a good comparison to support the differences. First: Power amp output can be up to 50 volts AC or more, at many amps. So this is very similar to houshold current. For example, to deliver 200 watts to an 8 ohm speaker requires 40 volts at 5 amps. This is in the ball park of household current and voltages and thus we cannot simply disregard comparisons. If we were off by a factor of a hundred then OK. Second: Higher currents require better conductors and would be more affected by oxidation than lower current speaker requirements. A very low current may be unaffected by oxidation, while a higher current will. Source voltage is not a factor at all, since it is the IR loss determined by the current and resistance of the wire/interconnect that will determine the voltage drop. Terms such as "juice" and "push thru" are meaningless in a technical discussion. Furthermore, as long as the ends have good contacts, oxidation on the surface of individual strands would not affect conductivity much as long as it is not deep. If you believe that individually insulated Litz wire is good, then individually insulated by oxidation speaker wire should be good too! And of course skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies. This has been known for a hundred years and does not need to be redundantly re-proven over and over again! According to the scientific method by which our civilization survives, it would be up to cable companies to prove that skin effect is important, not the oher way around! And with that, have a good day Chops! Do audio signals behave differently thru a conductor depending what frequency they operate at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 How often do you replace the wiring in your home? It's copper it'll be fine. Since when do you listen to music though the power lines in your house? A standard household A/C line has 110-120 volts of juice along with up to 15 amps of current to easily push through the little amounts of resistance created by oxidation buildup on the lines to not effect anything. The effects of oxidation buildup is much greater to an audio amplifier due to the lower voltages and amperages. This statement is not only contradicting itself but not a good comparison to support the differences. First: Power amp output can be up to 50 volts AC or more, at many amps. So this is very similar to houshold current. For example, to deliver 200 watts to an 8 ohm speaker requires 40 volts at 5 amps. This is in the ball park of household current and voltages and thus we cannot simply disregard comparisons. If we were off by a factor of a hundred then OK. Second: Higher currents require better conductors and would be more affected by oxidation than lower current speaker requirements. A very low current may be unaffected by oxidation, while a higher current will. Source voltage is not a factor at all, since it is the IR loss determined by the current and resistance of the wire/interconnect that will determine the voltage drop. Terms such as "juice" and "push thru" are meaningless in a technical discussion. Furthermore, as long as the ends have good contacts, oxidation on the surface of individual strands would not affect conductivity much as long as it is not deep. If you believe that individually insulated Litz wire is good, then individually insulated by oxidation speaker wire should be good too! And of course skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies. This has been known for a hundred years and does not need to be redundantly re-proven over and over again! According to the scientific method by which our civilization survives, it would be up to cable companies to prove that skin effect is important, not the oher way around! And with that, have a good day Chops! Do audio signals behave differently thru a conductor depending what frequency they operate at? Yes. Oxidation attenuates higher frequencies. efzauner, if what I said is not true, then why does that all-time little trick of loosening and retighening all the connections on the crossover networks usually tend to open the speakers back up some? If it wasn't true, then no one would recommend doing it, and there are loads of members here on the forum who recommend doing this all the time. "This statement is not only contradicting itself but not a good comparison to support the differences." I don't think so. The day you pump 50 volts and several amps into a home audio midrange or tweeter and not end up with the voice coils landing in your lap, then I'll change my story. Until then... With you referring to 200 watts (40 volts & 5 amps) into an 8 ohm driver, that would be a woofer which would never be reproducing high frequencies to begin with. So in that respect, no, you wouldn't here the effects of oxidation. You have a good day as well, sir. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I've still got my first set of speaker wire - from 1972. I will be happy to donate it to those who think that wire is just wire. It's kind of green now under the clear insulation - but hey, who needs to change wire! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Speaking of vintage wire... before the first atomic bomb test (Trinity), it was predicted and realised that after the test all future existing and fabricated metal in the world would be slightly contaminated with fallout. Some metals need to be free of any radioactive properties from contamination for specialised testing and some kinds of lab instruments. Therefore a vast quantity of metal sheets, tubes, slabs, bricks, and rolls, AND WIRE was stored prior to the first blast in thickly lead lined vaults. This metal is still available for special purposes and is called 'Pre-Trinity' as in, "I'd like three rolls of Pre-Trinity steel, please". For those looking for really quiet wires, these would be them - almost no shot noise from background radiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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