DizRotus Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Which quick connect to use with schools La Scalas?[1] Right now we are using ¼ plugs[2] so that the director can quickly disconnect the speakers (which stay in place on top of the instrument lockers) from a cart that holds the receiver and CD player. The cart is then locked in his office.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> While passing time in the library reading the 2006 Parts Express catalog, I was checking out the connectors on pages 72 and 73. Either the Neutrik® or Speakon® appear to be better solutions to the quick connect/disconnect need than the ¼ plugs, which tend to make poor connections over time, requiring constant attention. I have no personal experience with either. Which would be better, or is there another comparably priced solution somewhere else in the PE Catalog? What are the advantages or disadvantages to each? Its just to conductor, but we want to guarantee correct polarity and it would be nice if we could make it so that the right cable would only mate with the right receptacle and left with left. After returning the PE catalog to the rack, flushing and washing my hands, I exited the library to post this thread. [1] Ported La Scalas Photos and Review: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/757339.aspx [2] Parts Express #092-202 and #092-122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Neil, The Speakon® connectors were designed and manufactured by Neutrik. They are great connectors, and come in four pole as well (four connections per connector). They are locking, and therefore won't easily pull out. A lot of (dare I say most?) new professional equipment uses them for speaker outs on amps and inputs on the speaker cabinets. Great stuff, and far better than 1/4 inch phone plugs/jacks. Depending on how you make the cabling, you could have a single Speakon® on the cart so you would only have to plug in one cable. It would have both the left and right wired into it. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Yes, there is a lot more surface area contact, they are lockable, and have a great strain relief. I didn't know there were two types. Incidentally, Klipsch uses these babies on the huge cables provided with the THX sub systems. They are four conductor so you could use them to bi-amp within a single plug if you so desired. Or you could wire two conductors to the jack for the left speaker and two to the OTHER two conductors to the right speaker. Or just color code the jack and plugs. How stupid IS this band director guy anyway? If they take them outside very often, I'd sure as heck abandon that 'over the locker's' hanging scheme now in use. That's no way to afford portability, and a big liablity issue for someone. If it were me they'd either be permanently mounted in the band room, or on wheels, not both. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 Bruce & Michael-<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Since the cost difference is insignificant, the Speakon® hardware seems the better way to go. When you say theyre "lockable," does that mean that they always "lock" into place? These get connected and disconnected daily. A locking feature might be a nuisance and/or quickly broken. The band director does not want cables loose on the floor when the speakers are not in use, i.e., left and right cables unplug from the bases of the respective locker and get coiled up and stored with the cart. That way, no wires are left on the floor to get damaged or trip someone. Regarding portability of the speakers, they are not coming down from the lockers in the foreseeable future; they were never intended for outdoor use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Go speakon. Another benefit not mentioned so far is that they don't require any soldering. Wires are always going to break (seems a fact of life) and this will make it much easier to deal with when it occurs. They just use screws with pressure feet and an awesome strain relief mechanism. The locking feature is always there. When inserting the plug, you stick it in and then have to turn it about 45 degrees where it will then click into place. To remove the plug you simply pull on the release lever with your thumb and twist the connector off. It's very easy and intuitive. A little bit harder than a normal 1/4" jack, but easier than any other form of locking cable. As far as durability...I know they're plastic, but I've never come across a single broken or faulty speakon connector - even on equipment that is being set up and torn down daily and exposed to the worst of cable abuse. The plugs only fit one way so there are never polarity issues either. It probably sounds too good to be true, but they really are the epitomy of cable connection. I've used them for years and have always been impressed with their ease of use. And it was only just in Hope where I learned how to make them myself and holy cow, I will never go to any other connector again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I see, they just need to stow the cables when class is not in session, but there is a class every day so they need to be hooked up? I take it this is the need for a stable, rugged, idiot-proof connector, right? If I'm mistaken, kindly ignore the rest of this. EDIT** I reread your posts and wanted to say this first. It looks like the security of the rack of gear is paramount. I would recommend wiring the speakers such that it is a permanent wire at the speaker end, properly routed along the wall, clamped into place, then exiting in a jack plate very near where the equipment rack is rolled into position. This will be a short cable which might have the Speakon connectors. This will eliminate any trip danger of wires while the system is hooked up as well as when it is unhooked. However if the band director is placing the rack mid room such that there are speaker cables running over the floor during class- my admonishment below still stands. END EDIT** SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY. If there is a cable danger outside of class hours, there is one DURING CLASS. You do mention the hazard of tripping in your last post, so I think the following points are valid. Sorry to keep after this topic, but if it is indeed a permanent installation in the building, it's time to get the house electrician to wire them up properly and safely. Should something ever happen to a student in that room because of improper installation of equipment on school ground, it's going to get ugly. Every time I rigged lighting or sound systems in a club, public safety was a concern. Speaker stacks could not be allowed to be tipped, even if drunks climbed on them. I used to literally hang from any hanging hardware before I'd clamp the first light onto it. Every light over the audience had an additional cable lanyard in case the clamp came loose. Go to any concert venue or public performance. There are not cables running loose on the floor where people might trip over them. You simply cannot allow this type of sloppy, yes SLOPPY installation. The school is a public space. You must watch out for safety and your own liablity. Whatever it costs, get these units wired properly and safely or take them down until the school board can afford such work. Neil, you might be personally liable unless the school has paid for these LaScalas and you have nothing more to do with their installation. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 Michael,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I appreciate your concern, but please recall that I am a recovering attorney (I was a litigation attorney for more than two decades). While it's wise to avoid unreasonable risks, in our litigious society, it's impossible to live your life in a way guaranteed to make you litigation proof. In this great country, anyone can sue anyone over anything; just ask MJ.[1] All they risk is the cost of filing the litigation. The only guaranteed winners are the lawyers. Perhaps the Bard was right. All reasonable precautions have already been taken. When the cart with the receiver and CD player is in use, the director needs it centered (left to right) in the front of the classroom. The power cord and speaker cables go back toward the wall. Students are not permitted to go into that area. The hazardto the students and the cableswould be if the cables were disconnected at the cartrather than at the lockersand left lying on the floor when the cart is locked away in the office. The only way to avoid the power cord and/or the cables from temporarily traversing the distance between the cart and the front wall would be to run wiring under the floor or drop it down from the ceiling; both unreasonable IMO. Neither would make the school invulnerable from suit. Someone could trip, slip, fall, etc. over the unexpected floor mounted connector or someone could get TMJ, a closed head injury or cervical spine injures from colliding with the wiring hanging from the ceiling or from looking up to the ceiling to see where the wiring goes. FYI I ordered the Speakon® connectors. EDIT: @11:17 EDT While you were editing your post, I was composing the above. As you can see, what you describe in your edit is essentially the scenario. [1] http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5766288?FSO1&ATT=HMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 'recovering attorney' dig it. Forgot I was preaching to the choir. Sounds like the wire routing keeps the kids out of harms way. Where are you going to put the sockets for the Speakon's? Maybe in a bracket attached inside the W horn on the front? Or I guess you could build a pigtail cable from the xover to a cable mount female Speakon that would lie loose up on top of the lockers... M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 The cables are attached to the tops of the lockers from the speakers to the ends of the lockers. Next, they go down through holes in the tops of the lockers. Finally, they are attached to the insides of the end lockers. The jacks are at the bases of the lockers. When the plugs are removed, there are no loose wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 That's better yet. You might put a rubber grommet where the cable goes through the metal locker. Let me know how easy those Speakons are to install, I've used them but never been inside one. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 That's better yet. You might put a rubber grommet where the cable goes through the metal locker. Let me know how easy those Speakons are to install, I've used them but never been inside one. M Only the locker doors are metal "cages;" the tops, backs and sides are 3/4" MDF. Your friend DrWho speaks highly of Speakon®, I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Yeah, Doc is getting to be right more of the time. It's a real PAIN. You've probably heard of items being Military Spec? Well Speakon's are better than Mil Spec, They're ROCK AND ROLL Spec! Industry standard- can't go wrong. Although the barrels are plastic, it's so heavy and dense that I bet you could drive over them. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 lol, rock and roll spec, that's classic. Is that trademarked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I believe I did coin the phrase, yes. But you have my permission to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted July 17, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 17, 2006 they also have them made of metal. they can take a 350 lbs of shear force. I have seen roddies use them as a lader on large stacks... I have had new guys around here that were using a speaker cable on a real and not dissconect the specon from the wall plate while realing up the cable. the 12 /4 speaker wire broke before the strain or connect pulled out. they also make a 90 deg adaptor for that connector. doesn't stick out as much. about $2 from mouser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Trey, Thanks for the endorsement. I guess you can't beat Liechtenstein when it comes to quick connects. The attached photo shows the cable end connector on the left and the panel mounted receptacles on the right. The upper set is exploded and the lower set is connected. You can see the small set screws in the upper left just behind the grey collar. They look to be very well engineered and manufactured. They should be a vast imporvement over 1/4" plugs and jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 The installation of the Speakon connectors was straightforward. They are much better than 1/4" plugs & jacks. The only surprise was the fact that the wire connection points on the panel mount side are 3/16" spades (without holes large enough to pass a wire) that are close together and at right angles to each other. Their small size and positioning makes soldering impractical and inelegant. The solution is to use 3/16" female terminals capable of accomodating 14 ga wire. It then becomes imperative to protect the connection points from impact and/or accidental disconnection. Neither is much of a concern inside a speaker; both are concerns inside an instrument locker. I mounted electrical "knock-out" boxes over the openings in the 3/4" MDF locker walls in which the connecters were attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted July 21, 2006 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 21, 2006 I use the same ".205" pushon in the lab. I cover each with heatshrink. It makes changing very easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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