rimwich Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Im really looking into a pioneer 7.1 reciever (VSX-816-K) and i was just wondering since basically everything is encoded to 5.1 would it just use the 5.1 speakers needed or convert it to use all of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Welcome to the forum rimwich.[] It will send a matrixed surround mix from your side surrounds to the rear speakers on 5.1 material--not officially 7.1, but you can use your rear speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 In fact, there is no such thing as 7.1 material [] At best, there is a DTS format that supports 6.1 and all of Dolby is 5.1 So though not entirely discrete, having the extra surround speakers is recommended and the matrixing does allow the recording engineer to steer the sound where he wants it to go. As far as I know, all 7.1 recievers will matrix the surround information unless you tell the reciever that you don't have the extra surround speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIbor Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I run mine at 6.1. I dont hear a whole lot out of the rear center speaker. At least when it matrixed. A true 6.1 soundtrack sounds much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelA Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 As far as I know, the receiver needs to be Dolby Pro Logic IIx capable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 THX® Overview Think of "THX" as a label of high quality for home theater article last updated on 6.5.2002 | printer-friendly format What is THX? And how does it relate to Dolby Digital and DTS Digital Surround? First, it is important to realize that THX is a quantitative measure of quality that works in conjunction with the different surround sound formats (e.g., Dolby Digital and DTS) to bring the quality of the sound presentation to the highest standards. To ensure the highest possible quality in home cinema, THX defines stringent picture and sound track criteria for film-to-DVD (and film-to-VHS) transfers. Such DVD titles are labeled as "THX Digitally Mastered for superior sound and picture quality" or simply "THX Certified". THX also defines stringent performance standards for audio/video source and processing components. These include strict performance standards for DVD players, receivers, preamplifiers, power amplifiers, speakers, interconnect cables, speaker cables, and even the room's acoustic characteristics (for dedicated home theater environments). For the "everyday consumer", the "THX" label means that the highest standards have been used, whether the product is a DVD-Video title, or an audio/video component. What is the difference between "THX Select" and "THX Ultra"? For receivers and loudspeakers, the THX Select certification is for components that are certified to perform in a mid-sized home theater environment of up to 2,000 cubic feet. The volume of a room, expressed in cubic feet, is computed by multiplying the length by the width by the height of the room. (For example, a room that is 18 feet wide by 14 feet wide by 9 feet high, has a volume of 18 x 14 x 9 = 2,268 cubic feet.) The more stringent THX Ultra certification (which is equivalent to the original, plain THX certification) is given to components that meet the THX performance standards for larger home theater environments (up to 3,000 cubic feet). Theoretically, if you have a home theater environment that is 2,000 cubic feet or less, THX Select receivers and loudspeakers should deliver about the same presentation standards as the higher-end THX Ultra components. THX Ultra THX SelectMore Info: Read the THX web page on the differences between THX Ultra and THX Select. For other components such as preamplifiers, power amplifiers, DVD players, the certification is just known as THX Ultra (or equivalently just THX) certification. There are no THX Select certification for these types of components. What are some "THX Certified" DVD titles? There are many -- they include: "The Mask of Zorro", "Titanic", "True Lies", "Tarzan", "Mulan", and many, many others. So what does "THX" stand for? Some say that "THX" was named after George Lucas' first movie, "THX 1138" (1971). Others say that it was an acronym for Tomlinson Holman's eXperiment. Tomlinson Holman was the premiere audio engineer that George Lucas hired to develop the THX standard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- so that said.. Technologies Overview Digital Audio for Playback Dolby Technology Found In Dolby TrueHD Dolby® TrueHD is the only audio format that delivers true high-definition sound, providing up to 7.1 channels of pristine, lossless audio 100 percent of the time. Dolby TrueHD will be found on HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players and software, as well as in future A/V receivers and downloadable media. More Home Entertainment, PC, Automotive Dolby Digital Dolby Digital brings the cinema experience home, delivering up to 5.1 channels of surround sound audio. Dolby Digital is the multichannel audio standard for DVD-Video, HDTV, digital cable, and direct broadcast satellite (DBS) systems. More Home Entertainment, PC, Games, Automotive, Motion Pictures Dolby Digital Plus Dolby Digital Plus is the next-generation audio format that delivers "better-than-DVD" sound in high-definition packaged media because it requires less compression and provides more channels (up to 7.1). Dolby Digital Plus also provides new coding efficiencies for future broadcasting and streaming of multichannel audio. More Home Entertainment Dolby Digital EX Dolby Digital EX creates a more intense surround sound experience by adding a sixth channel (Center Back) for enhanced localization of surround effects. It's optimized for Dolby Digital Surround EX content. More Home Entertainment Dolby Digital Surround EX Surround sound format that introduces a center rear channel to the 5.1 playback format of Dolby Digital. This additional channel clarifies audio effects that pan from front to back and improves the realism of audio that originates from directly behind the listener. More Motion Pictures Dolby Digital Live Found in PC and console-based video game applications, Dolby Digital Live converts any stereo or multichannel audio signal to a Dolby Digital format for a dramatic, real-time audio experience and simple (one plug) connection to an A/V receiver for playback. More PC, Games Dolby Surround Dolby Surround technology encodes four channels of audio (Left/Center/Right/Mono Surround) onto just two audio tracks for media such as TV broadcasts and feature films on VHS. On systems containing Dolby Pro Logic® technology, the audio is reconstructed to its original four-channel surround sound. More Home Entertainment, Motion Pictures Dolby Analog (Dolby Stereo and Dolby Spectral Recording) The original Dolby analog multichannel film sound format revolutionized the moviegoing experience, and is still included today on nearly all 35 mm film prints. More Motion Pictures AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) is a perceptual coding method used to compress digital audio files for efficient storage and transmission. Upon playback, the expanded files can provide sound quality nearly indistinguishable from the original sources. More Home Entertainment, PC MLP Lossless MLP Lossless is the core technology of DVD-Audio, providing up to 5.1 full-bandwidth channels of pure, lossless audio playback that is bit-for-bit identical to studio masters. More Home Entertainment, Automotive, PC THX Surround EX (Dolby Digital EX) THX Surround EX, also known as Dolby Digital EX, refers to the Dolby Digital version of the new "6.1"-channel surround sound format that extends the 5.1-channel surround sound format with one (or two) additional speaker(s) located in the back of the audience (i.e., back surround channel). THX Surround EX is actually a 5.1-channel format with the back surround audio channel matrixed into those of the right and left surround. The back surround channel is matrixed in similar fashion as the front center channel is matrixed into the front right and left channels in the Dolby Surround Pro-Logic format. As such, the back surround channel is not discrete and therefore THX Surround EX is not a true "6.1" format. What about the extended surround "7.1" format? Well, "7.1" is not a true surround sound format. Rather it refers to home theater equipment manufacturers' proprietary implementation of two back surround channels using the same back surround audio signal that was discussed above. Usually, the audio signal fed to the two back surround channels are identical, but some manufacturers may choose to mix some information from the left and right surrounds. Again, these are proprietary implementations that vary across manufacturers and are not industry standards. The use of two back surround speakers fills in the sound better from the rear of the audience than single back surround speaker implementations. To take advantage of THX Surround EX, you must have both: (1) a DVD player and use one of the digital audio outputs (e.g., "Toslink" optical or coaxial).(2) a THX Surround EX decoder, usually a function of the receiver or pre-amplifier. Look for the "THX Surround EX" words or logo on the faceplate. Receivers featuring THX Surround EX decoding are still relatively expensive, particularly those that comes with six or seven channels of amplification for the full frequency channels. DTS Extended Surround Matrix is a competing extended surround matrix format, while DTS Extended Surround Discrete 6.1 is the only true discrete 6.1 format. Also see: Surround Sound Formats page for a full explanation, Dolby Digital, DTS Extended Surround, DTSAdditional Information and References: Lucasfilm THX Surround EX page, Dolby Digital home page --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DTS Digital Surround DTS Digital Surround is a 5.1-channel surround sound format, similar to Dolby Digital. As such it is a competing format to Dolby Digital. DTS (Digital Theater System) features up to five discrete (independent) channels (front center, front left, front right, surround left, surround right; giving it the "5" designation) of full frequency sound (with respect to the range of human hearing, which ideally ranges from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz), plus a sixth channel for low frequency effects (LFE). The LFE signal is usually reserved for the subwoofer speaker(s), or those speakers capable of reproducing low frequency ranges. The low frequency effects channel gives DTS the ".1" designation. The ".1" signifies that the sixth channel is not full frequency, as it contains only deep bass frequencies (3 Hz to 120 Hz). DTS is a lossy audio encoding scheme that supports up to 5.1 channels of discrete audio. Though the vast majority of DTS digital surround soundtracks consist of 5.1 channels, the fact is that it can be composed of less than 5.1 discrete channels. For example, DTS 4.0 have discrete audio signals for the center, left, and right channels, plus a mono audio signal that is common for the surround channels. DTS 4.1 is like DTS 4.0, but adds the ".1" low frequency effects channel. DTS 5.0 is like DTS 5.1, but lacks a discrete audio signal for the low frequency effects channel. Keep in mind that "DTS" does not always equate to "DTS 5.1". "DTS" generically refers to the encoding scheme as discussed above. Only when it says "DTS 5.1" explicitly can you be sure that the soundtrack consists of 5.1 discrete channels. Fortunately, the vast majority of DTS encoded DVDs are in fact DTS 5.1. DTS uses higher data rates (1.5 Mbit/sec or 754 kbit/sec, which are almost twice to four times higher) to encode the 5.1 channels of surround sound information than Dolby Digital (448 kbit/sec or 384 kbit/sec), prompting many home theater enthusiasts and industry experts to claim that it is superior to Dolby Digital. DTS surround sound encoded DVD-Video titles are far fewer in number than their Dolby Digital counterparts, and until recently were released months after their Dolby Digital counterparts. Thanks to the new lower DTS data rate (i.e., the 754 kbit/sec data rate), some studios (e.g., Buena Vista, DreamWorks, Fox, New Line and to a lesser extent Columbia TriStar and Artisan) have begun to release DVD titles that feature both Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1. Prior to the advent of the lower DTS data rate, DTS DVD titles featured the full DTS data rate (i.e., the 1.5 Mbit/sec data rate) soundtrack, a Dolby Surround 2.0 soundtrack (for backwards compatibility with non-DTS equipment), and few (if any) bonus material since capacity of the DVD was limited due to the "data hogging" full-rate DTS soundtrack. To take advantage of DTS digital surround, you must have either configuration (A) or (: Configuration (A): DTS decoding in the receiver or preamplifier (this is the preferred configuration) (1) a receiver or preamplifier with built-in DTS decoding (look for the "DTS" logo on the faceplate), and (2) a DVD player with DTS digital output (look for the "DTS" or "DTS digital out" logo on the faceplate). Alternatively you can use a DVD player with DTS decoding built-in with its digital output (in which case you're not really using the decoder in the DVD player), and (3) use an optical or coaxial digital audio interconnect to connect the DVD player to the receiver or preamplifier Configuration (: DTS decoding in the DVD player (1) a "5.1-channel ready" receiver or preamplifier (with no DTS decoding) that has a set of 5.1-channel analog inputs, and (2) a DVD player with built-in DTS decoding (look for the "DTS digital surround" logo on the faceplate and a set of 5.1-channel analog outputs on the back panel), and (3) use six analog audio interconnects (i.e., three stereo RCA pairs) between the DVD player and the receiver or preamplifier Dolby Digital is a competing format that also supports up to "5.1" discrete channels. DTS Extended Surround (Matrix or Discrete 6.1) DTS Extended Surround refers to the Digital Theater Sound's version of the new "6.1"-channel surround sound format that extends the 5.1-channel surround sound format with one (or two) additional speaker(s) located in the back of the audience (i.e., back surround channel). DTS Extended Surround (or DTS-ES for short) comes in two flavors: (1) DTS Extended Surround Matrix, or (2) DTS Extended Surround Discrete 6.1. DTS-ES Matrix is actually a 5.1-channel format with the back surround audio channel matrixed into those of the right and left surround. The back surround channel is matrixed in similar fashion as the front center channel is matrixed into the front right and left channels in the Dolby Surround Pro-Logic format. As such, the back surround channel is not discrete and therefore is not a true "6.1" format. DTS-ES Matrix is compatible with THX Surround EX equipment. DTS-ES Matrix is completely backwards compatible with DTS 5.1 equipment. DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 is a true 6.1-channel format, as the back surround audio channel is discretely encoded into the DTS bitstream. This format offers better spatialization over the surround channels for complete 360-degree sound localization and surround pans (i.e., movement of sound in the surround channels from one side to another). A data flag signals the decoder (usually part of the receiver or pre-amplifier) that the bitstream contains an extra discrete back surround channel. For backwards compatibility, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 back surround channel is ignored by DTS 5.1 equipment. What about the extended surround "7.1" format? Well, "7.1" is not a true surround sound format. Rather it refers to home theater equipment manufacturers' proprietary implementation of two back surround channels using the same back surround audio signal that was discussed above. Usually, the audio signal fed to the two back surround channels are identical, but some manufacturers may choose to mix some information from the left and right surrounds. Again, these are proprietary implementations that vary across manufacturers and are not industry standards. The use of two back surround speakers fills in the sound better from the rear of the audience than single back surround speaker implementations. To take advantage of DTS Extended Surround digital surround, you must have both: (1) DTS-capable DVD player, either with DTS digital output or a DTS built-in decoder. Look for the "DTS" or "DTS digital out" logos on the faceplate of the DVD player.(2) DTS Extended Surround decoder, usually part of a DTS-ES capable receiver or DTS-ES capable pre-amplifier. Look for the "DTS Extended Surround" logo on the faceplate. THX Surround EX equipment can decode DTS-ES Matrix, but not DTS-ES Discrete 6.1. DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 requires a true DTS-ES decoder. Equipment featuring a true DTS-ES decoder is still few in number and are expensive. A few models that are currently available include the Denon AVR-5800 receiver (approximately $3,800). THX Surround EX is a competing extended surround matrix format. Currently there are no THX or Dolby Digital equivalent of DTS-ES Discrete 6.1. ===================================================== So confused yet? re read the above you shoud get it.. It even gets crazy picking out equipment too. Look at what THX does..below. THX Certified Product Logo Guide Each THX Certified Product is engineered to perform best in specific room environments. Room size, acoustic design and system setup are all critical factors to how movies, music and games are experienced in the home. Use this THX Certified Product Logo Guide to assist in choosing which products work best for you. LOGO DESCRIPTION PRODUCT TYPES SEARCH THX UltraTHX Ultra Certified Products are engineered and designed for top performing products that are not dependent on a specific room size. Interconnects Equalizers Projection Screens DVD Players THX Ultra Certified Products THX Ultra2THX Ultra2 Certified Products are engineered and designed for large home theaters. Viewing distance of approximately 12 feet / 4 meters from the display to the listening position. Speakers Receivers Pre-Amplifiers Power Amplifiers THX Ultra2 Certified Products THX SelectTHX Select Certified Products are engineered and designed for superior performance and complement the presentation of THX Select2 Certified Receivers. Speakers DVD Players THX Select Certified Products THX Select2THX Select2 Certified Products are engineered and designed for small to medium sized home theaters. Viewing distance of approximately 10 feet / 3 meters from the display to the listening position. Receivers THX Select2 Certified Products THX Certified MultimediaTHX Certified Multimedia Products are engineered and designed for products with approximately a 28 inch / 0.7 meter viewing distance from display - the desktop. Desktop Speaker Systems Soundcards THX Certified Multimedia Products THX Certified Home Theater Technicians Duplicating studio-quality performance in the home isn't always easy. THX Certified Home Theater Technicians have been trained by THX to be technical resources. These experts in the field are there to provide additional support on THX Certified Home Theater Products and room design. So thats it all in a nutshell. What is THX? (A standard of specs... NOT a sound format.) And what are the DTS and Dolby sound..... reproduction formats for you to enjoy! Hope this helps! Answer your 5.1 to 7.1 to 9.1 questions too. BTW, with 2 subs, shouldn't it be 5.2- 7.2- 9.2 also?? hahahahahaha HAVE FUN!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Indy, where did you get that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 The king of Google, dogpile, ask.coms.... I just thought it would be great to have it all here.. to print out and discuss.. Hope it helped!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 http://www.dts.com/ http://www.thx.com/mod/products/chosngProduct.html http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/tech_overview.html Among a few ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Sounds like something that should be thrown into an article over at the klipsch corner...would you want to put it together (basically just add a few references to your post), or would you like me to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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